Soldiering family - Father and two sons who died during the Great War

[Clarissabell]

I am looking for information about these three soldiers, Father Benjamin, and sons Charles and Hector Young, all from Sandymount, Dublin, who died at different dates during WWI. As you can see, I have some information on the sons, but little on the father. One newspaper report notes that when one son died, Capt. Young was 'lying ill with paralysis at the Central Military Hospital, Cork.' Maybe someone could tell me how did he ended up there? And could anyone give me more detail about how the sons died or if they are mentioned anywhere by commanding officers etc. I am tying to build up a picture about these men.

1. Capt Benjamin Poyntz Young (RAMC) husband of Anne Young, died at Military Hospital, Cork, 6th November, 1916,

2. 6483 Pte Charles Robert Young. - 13th Field Arb Royal Army Medical Corps. Died 27th Sept 1914, age 23. Son of Mrs Ann Young, of 17 Sandymount Rd., Dublin and the late Capt Benjamin Poyntz (RAMC). Buried in St Nazire (Toutes-Aides) Cemetery- Loire-Atlantique, France. Grave No B.34. Charles Robert,R.A.M.C., died of wounds received at first battle of Aisne, 27th September - Can anyone elaborate?

3. L/Cpl Hector Albert Young. No.B/202230. "C" Coy 10th Bn Rifle Brigade. Died of pneumonia 30th December 1918, age 23. Son of Mrs Ann Young, of 17 Sandymount Rd., Dublin and the late Capt Benjamin Poyntz (RAMC). Buried in Tidworth Military Cemetery-Wiltshire. Grave No.A.61. Hector Albert, Rifle Brigade, died of illness contracted on active service at Military Hospital, Tidworth, 30th December, 1918 - Can anyone be more specific?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers, Clarissabell.

[stiletto_33853]

Clarissabell,

Before I start digging away, your entry for B/202230 Hector Albert Young is incorrect if a few ways. Firstly the 10th Rifle Brigade were disbanded in February 1918 with the personnel going to either the 3rd, 11th, 12th & 13th Rifle Brigade, in this case Hector went to the 13th Rifle Brigade.

Andy

[Clarissabell]

Clarissabell,

Before I start digging away, your entry for B/202230 Hector Albert Young is incorrect if a few ways. Firstly the 10th Rifle Brigade were disbanded in February 1918 with the personnel going to either the 3rd, 11th, 12th & 13th Rifle Brigade, in this case Hector went to the 13th Rifle Brigade.

Andy

Hi Andy - I am not sure where to go from here... This information was gathered by a now deceased researcher from the Royal Dublin Fusiliers Association, and this is one of the past pupils whose name appears on a war memorial in the school where I work. According to the school records, his DOB is 10/11/1895, which ties in with this census record from 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Rotunda/Dorset_Street__Upper/38046/

You can see that he is the son of Benjamin and the brother of Charles. Do you think that we have the wrong army number and the wrong man? Is family connections and a DOB enough to go on?

Regards Clarissabell

[Michael Pegum]

All three have memorials in Ireland, as shown on the Irish War Memorials website. The father is on the screen wall in Grangegorman Military Cemetery, and the sons in St. Matthew's Church, Ringsend as well as the High School.

There is a photograph of Charles Robert Young, and a brief biography, in "Our Heroes". It describes him as "Lieut.", but it goes on to say that he was the son of Dr. B. Poyntz Young, of Sandymount Road, so it must be the same one. It says that he was 4th Officer on the S.S. "Bray Head" before the war, and the photograph shows him in naval uniform.

"You can see that he is the son of Benjamin and the brother of Charles. Do you think that we have the wrong army number and the wrong man? Is family connections and a DOB enough to go on?"

There is no doubt you have the right man, as the entry on the C.W.G.C. website says that he was the son of Anne Young, of 17, Sandymount Rd., Dublin, and the late Capt. Benjamin Poyntz Young (R.A.M.C.).

As he died in England, you might be able to get a death certificate. Have you looked in the newspapers for an obituary of the father? There might be one in the British Medical Journal, as well.

Michael

[stiletto_33853]

Hi Clarissabell,

As you can see from his medal roll he was firstly in the Army Service Corps, the S/4 denotes supply. The Rifle Brigade number of B/202230 shows at this stage of the numbering that he was transferred into the Rifle Brigade sometime after September 1916, approx Nov/Dec 1916 with that number. As mentioned the 10th Rifle Brigade were disbanded in February 1918 with the men being sent to the battalions previously stated , which is confirmed as the 13th by his medal roll. I will see if we can come up with something for you, certainly he does not appear to be mentioned in any of the 10th Rifle Brigade casualty lists.

Andy

[Clarissabell]

Thanks Andy and Michael for your help. I am so curious about this family, what the war was like for them. I will look around for information about the father too and see what I come up with.

Regards, Clarissa

[museumtom]

Listed in both 1901 and 1911 Census born in Dublin, birth certificate shows place of birth was Cork. Dublin Benjamin Poyntz Young Captain Royal Army Medical Corps 06/11/1916 60 Cork (Birth certificate) Dublin Died Husband of Anne Young, of 17, Sandymount Road, Dublin. The Weekly Irish Times. November 11, 1916. Captain B Poyntz Young, R.A.M.C., 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin, is lying ill with paralysis at the Central Military Hospital, Cork. Irish Times. Young-November 6, at Military Hospital, Cork Benjamin Poyntz Young, CaptainR.A.M.C, of 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin. The Irish Times, November 5, 1921. Roll of Honour. In Memoriam. Young-In fond and ever loving memory of Captain Benjamin Poyntz Young,R.A.M.C., 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin, who died 6th November, 1916, at Military Hospital, Cork; also his two sons, Charles Robert,R.A.M.C., died of wounds received at first battle of Aisne, 27th September, 1914; hector Albert, Rifle Brigade, died of illness contracted on active service at Military Hospital, Tidworth, 30th December, 1918. The Irish Times, November 6, 1924. Roll of Honour.(1914-1918). In Memoriam. Young-In fond and ever loving memory of Captain Benjamin Poyntz Young,R.A.M.C., 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin, died at Military Hospital, Cork, 6th November, 1916,; also his sons, Charles Robert,R.A.M.C., died of wounds received at first battle of Aisne, 27th September, 1914; Hector Albert, Rifle Brigade, died of illness contracted on active service at Military Hospital, Tidworth, 30th December, 1918. Irish Independent; Captain B P Young, RAMC., of Sandymount Road, Dublin, who died at the Military Hospital, Cork, was a son of the late Mr T Young, D’Olier Street. Near North path. Drumcondra St. George's Burial Ground.

Dublin Charles Robert Young Private Royal Army Medical Corps 13th Field Amb 6483 27/09/1914 23 Dublin Liverpool Died of wounds Son of Mrs. Anne Young, of 17, Sandymount Road, Dublin, and the late Captain Benjamin Poyntz Young (R.A.M.C.). Irish Times. Young-September 27, 1914, At St Nazaire Hospital, France, from wounds received at the Battle of the Aisne, Charles Robert Young,R.A.M.C., aged 23 years, dearly loved son of Benjamin Poyntz Young, L.R.C.S., and P.I(?)., and Annie Young, 21 Sandymount Road, Dublin. B. 34. St. Nazaire (Toutes-Aides) Cemetery in France.

Dublin Hector Albert Young Lance Corporal Rifle Brigade "C" Company. 10th Battalion. B/202230 30/12/1918 23 Dublin (1911 Census) Son of Anne Young, of 17, Sandymount Road, Dublin, and the late Captain Benjamin Ponyz Young (R.A.M.C.). A. 61. Tidworth Military Cemetery, UK.

[Michael Pegum]

Charles Robert Young Private Royal Army Medical Corps ..... dearly loved son of Benjamin Poyntz Young, L.R.C.S., and P.I(?)., and Annie Young, 21 Sandymount Road, Dublin.

Licentiate of the Royal Colleges of Surgeons and Physicians of Ireland. The basic medical qualification; it means he went to the medical school at the Royal College of Surgeons.

Michael

[Clarissabell]

Thanks

Charles Robert Young Private Royal Army Medical Corps ..... dearly loved son of Benjamin Poyntz Young, L.R.C.S., and P.I(?)., and Annie Young, 21 Sandymount Road, Dublin.

Licentiate of the Royal Colleges of Surgeons and Physicians of Ireland. The basic medical qualification; it means he went to the medical school at the Royal College of Surgeons.

Michael

Thanks for explaining that Michael. Every detail helps!

Regards,

Clarissa

[Clarissabell]

Listed in both 1901 and 1911 Census born in Dublin, birth certificate shows place of birth was Cork. Dublin Benjamin Poyntz Young Captain Royal Army Medical Corps 06/11/1916 60 Cork (Birth certificate) Dublin Died Husband of Anne Young, of 17, Sandymount Road, Dublin. The Weekly Irish Times. November 11, 1916. Captain B Poyntz Young, R.A.M.C., 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin, is lying ill with paralysis at the Central Military Hospital, Cork. Irish Times. Young-November 6, at Military Hospital, Cork Benjamin Poyntz Young, CaptainR.A.M.C, of 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin. The Irish Times, November 5, 1921. Roll of Honour. In Memoriam. Young-In fond and ever loving memory of Captain Benjamin Poyntz Young,R.A.M.C., 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin, who died 6th November, 1916, at Military Hospital, Cork; also his two sons, Charles Robert,R.A.M.C., died of wounds received at first battle of Aisne, 27th September, 1914; hector Albert, Rifle Brigade, died of illness contracted on active service at Military Hospital, Tidworth, 30th December, 1918. The Irish Times, November 6, 1924. Roll of Honour.(1914-1918). In Memoriam. Young-In fond and ever loving memory of Captain Benjamin Poyntz Young,R.A.M.C., 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin, died at Military Hospital, Cork, 6th November, 1916,; also his sons, Charles Robert,R.A.M.C., died of wounds received at first battle of Aisne, 27th September, 1914; Hector Albert, Rifle Brigade, died of illness contracted on active service at Military Hospital, Tidworth, 30th December, 1918. Irish Independent; Captain B P Young, RAMC., of Sandymount Road, Dublin, who died at the Military Hospital, Cork, was a son of the late Mr T Young, D’Olier Street. Near North path. Drumcondra St. George's Burial Ground.

Dublin Charles Robert Young Private Royal Army Medical Corps 13th Field Amb 6483 27/09/1914 23 Dublin Liverpool Died of wounds Son of Mrs. Anne Young, of 17, Sandymount Road, Dublin, and the late Captain Benjamin Poyntz Young (R.A.M.C.). Irish Times. Young-September 27, 1914, At St Nazaire Hospital, France, from wounds received at the Battle of the Aisne, Charles Robert Young,R.A.M.C., aged 23 years, dearly loved son of Benjamin Poyntz Young, L.R.C.S., and P.I(?)., and Annie Young, 21 Sandymount Road, Dublin. B. 34. St. Nazaire (Toutes-Aides) Cemetery in France.

Dublin Hector Albert Young Lance Corporal Rifle Brigade "C" Company. 10th Battalion. B/202230 30/12/1918 23 Dublin (1911 Census) Son of Anne Young, of 17, Sandymount Road, Dublin, and the late Captain Benjamin Ponyz Young (R.A.M.C.). A. 61. Tidworth Military Cemetery, UK.

Thanks Tom - definitive as always. All three seem to have spent time in hospital, from what I can make out - terrible suffering.

Regards, Clarissa

[museumtom]

This has been updated since that post. He is the most up to date info.

Listed in both 1901 and 1911 Census born in Dublin, birth certificate shows place of birth was Cork. Dublin Benjamin Poyntz Young Captain Royal Army Medical Corps 06/11/1916 60 Cork (Birth certificate) Dublin Died Husband of Anne Young, of 17, Sandymount Road, Dublin. The Weekly Irish Times. November 11, 1916. Captain B Poyntz Young, R.A.M.C., 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin, is lying ill with paralysis at the Central Military Hospital, Cork. Irish Times. Young-November 6, at Military Hospital, Cork Benjamin Poyntz Young, CaptainR.A.M.C, of 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin. The Irish Times, November 5, 1921. Roll of Honour. In Memoriam. Young-In fond and ever loving memory of Captain Benjamin Poyntz Young,R.A.M.C., 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin, who died 6th November, 1916, at Military Hospital, Cork; also his two sons, Charles Robert,R.A.M.C., died of wounds received at first battle of Aisne, 27th September, 1914; hector Albert, Rifle Brigade, died of illness contracted on active service at Military Hospital, Tidworth, 30th December, 1918. The Irish Times, November 6, 1924. Roll of Honour.(1914-1918). In Memoriam. Young-In fond and ever loving memory of Captain Benjamin Poyntz Young,R.A.M.C., 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin, died at Military Hospital, Cork, 6th November, 1916,; also his sons, Charles Robert,R.A.M.C., died of wounds received at first battle of Aisne, 27th September, 1914; Hector Albert, Rifle Brigade, died of illness contracted on active service at Military Hospital, Tidworth, 30th December, 1918. Irish Independent; Captain B P Young, RAMC., of Sandymount Road, Dublin, who died at the Military Hospital, Cork, was a son of the late Mr T Young, D’Olier Street. Irish Independent; Young—In loving memory of Captain Benjamin Poyntz Young, RAMC, of 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin, who died 6th November, 1916, at the Military Hospital, Cork, and his son, Charles Robert, RAMC,., died of wounds received in the Battle of Aisne, 27th September, 1914. “Till the Resurrection Morn.” Irish Independent;Young-In fond and ever-loving memory of Captain Benjamin Poytz Young, RAMC., of 17 Sandymount Road, who died 6th November, 1916, at Military Hospital, Cork, and his son Charles Robert, RAMC, died of wounds received at the battle of Aisne, September 27, 1914. “Till the Resurrection Morn.” One year to-day has passed away, since this great sorrow fell. And in our hearts we mourn the loss, of those we loved so well. Near North path. Drumcondra St. George's Burial Ground.

Dublin Charles Robert Young Private Royal Army Medical Corps 13th Field Amb 6483 27/09/1914 23 Dublin Liverpool Died of wounds Son of Mrs. Anne Young, of 17, Sandymount Road, Dublin, and the late Captain Benjamin Poyntz Young (R.A.M.C.). Irish Times. Young-September 27, 1914, At St Nazaire Hospital, France, from wounds received at the Battle of the Aisne, Charles Robert Young,R.A.M.C., aged 23 years, dearly loved son of Benjamin Poyntz Young, L.R.C.S., and P.I(?)., and Annie Young, 21 Sandymount Road, Dublin. Irish Independent; Young-September 27, 1914, at St Nazaire Hospital, France, died from wounds received at the battle of the Aisne, Charles Robert Young, RAMC., aged 23 years, dearly-loved son of Benjamin Poyntz Young, L.R.C.S., and P.I., and Annie Young, 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin. B. 34. St. Nazaire (Toutes-Aides) Cemetery in France.

Dublin Hector Albert Young Lance Corporal Rifle Brigade "C" Company. 10th Battalion. B/202230 30/12/1918 23 Dublin (1911 Census) Son of Anne Young, of 17, Sandymount Road, Dublin, and the late Captain Benjamin Ponyz Young (R.A.M.C.). A. 61. Tidworth Military Cemetery, UK.

Cheers.

Tom.

[Michael Pegum]

There is a book in preparation giving biographies of all Irish doctors who died in the Great War, and I believe it is to be published some time this year. This may give you some more information about Dr. Benjamin Young.

Michael

[Clarissabell]

There is a book in preparation giving biographies of all Irish doctors who died in the Great War, and I believe it is to be published some time this year. This may give you some more information about Dr. Benjamin Young.

Michael

Thanks Michael -that will be a most interesting read.

Regards, Clarissa

[jdoyle]

there is a US WW1 Draft Registration card for a Dublin born (31st May 1885) Benjamin Poyntz Young.

The Poyntz Young home was originally 26 Upper Dorset St. Later used as an Alan Ryan Home for Consumptives (an extension of the isolation hospital at Pidgeon House?). A number of recent commemorations in Glasnevin relate to soldiers who died at this house (Gunner John Burke and Pte Patrick Fox)

[Clarissabell]

there is a US WW1 Draft Registration card for a Dublin born (31st May 1885) Benjamin Poyntz Young.

The Poyntz Young home was originally 26 Upper Dorset St. Later used as an Alan Ryan Home for Consumptives (an extension of the isolation hospital at Pidgeon House?). A number of recent commemorations in Glasnevin relate to soldiers who died at this house (Gunner John Burke and Pte Patrick Fox)

Thanks Johnny, I wonder if that was just a coincidence, or if the house was always 'the doctors's house.' Would have been one of those three storey Georgian houses...

[Clarissabell]

'The Weekly Irish Times. November 11, 1916. Captain B Poyntz Young, R.A.M.C., 17 Sandymount Road, Dublin, is lying ill with paralysis at the Central Military Hospital, Cork. Irish Times. '

Hi Tom - this is a bit puzzling - I gather that Capt Young died on 6th Nov 1916, but this newspaper report has him still alive - though suffering - on the 11th Nov. in Cork? Any ideas?

Regards, Clarissa

[Clarissabell]

There is a photograph of Charles Robert Young, and a brief biography, in "Our Heroes". It describes him as "Lieut.", but it goes on to say that he was the son of Dr. B. Poyntz Young, of Sandymount Road, so it must be the same one. It says that he was 4th Officer on the S.S. "Bray Head" before the war, and the photograph shows him in naval uniform.

Michael

Hi Michael, Does that mean that he was in the merchant navy, as he was just a private in the Ambulance Corps? That gives us a clue to his life before the war. The photograph you mention is the only one that I have been able to track down of him, so thanks! Now to track down a copy of that book!

Regards, Clarissa.

[museumtom]

Hello Michelle. Its it what it is. I just put in front of you what I find.

Cheers.

Tom.

[Clarissabell]

Hello Michelle. Its it what it is. I just put in front of you what I find.

Cheers.

Tom.

Thanks Tom - I was wondering if I had miss-read something! I have an idea that the family were using the newspaper to keep in touch with relatives abroad - the son's in the army? Just a thought - but the notice was too late, and by the time it was published, the Capt. Young was already dead. They must have forgotten to withdraw it - or wanted to break the news in this gradual way to their family... I just wish I knew how he ended up in the hospital in the first place.

Thanks for this Tom!

Regards, Clarissa

[museumtom]

Not a bother Michelle. I don't interpret facts, just find and record them. Sure it would be not life for a lad if he went down that road. He would not have any time left to scratch his bald old ceann.

Kind regards.

Tom.

[Michael Pegum]

1. There is a US WW1 Draft Registration card for a Dublin born (31st May 1885) Benjamin Poyntz Young.

This can't be the doctor, who was born about 1857 (aged 54 in 1911). It must be another son.

2. Does that mean that he was in the merchant navy, as he was just a private in the Ambulance Corps?

Yes, according to 'Our Heroes;, he was an officer in the Merchant Navy, and this may have been his rank. The entry doesn't say what rank he was in the R.A.M.C.

Do you have a copy of the photo? If not, I can scan it from my (original) copy of 'Our Heroes'.

Michael

[Clarissabell]

Yes, according to 'Our Heroes;, he was an officer in the Merchant Navy, and this may have been his rank. The entry doesn't say what rank he was in the R.A.M.C.

Do you have a copy of the photo? If not, I can scan it from my (original) copy of 'Our Heroes'.

Michael

I looked him up on the British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards and his rank is given as 'Pte' - Private.

I would really appreciate seeing his photo, so yes please scan the piece, if it isn't too much bother. I cannot borrow it from the library apparently!

That US Draft record is very curious. You wouldn't expect such a unique name to throw up incorrect records.

Thanks Michael!

Regards, Clarissa

[Michael Pegum]

I would really appreciate seeing his photo, so yes please scan the piece, if it isn't too much bother. I cannot borrow it from the library apparently!

That US Draft record is very curious. You wouldn't expect such a unique name to throw up incorrect records.

Thanks Michael!

Regards, Clarissa

I will scan the photo as soon as my scanner has been fixed, and send it to your e-mail address.

Another lead is Dr. Young's will. This could be obtained for a small fee from the U.K.

I think that the U.S. record means that Benjamin P. Young, Dr. Young's son, emigrated to the U.S.A. and was drafted. The Americans have very full records of immigrants, and of soldiers in their army so, if you wanted to follow up this lead, it should be possible to find out quite a lot about him. This is from Ancestry, but my subscription does not include American records, I'm afraid, so I can't get a look at the original record.

Michael

[Michael Pegum]

Another snippet of information! If Charles Robert Young had stayed in the Merchant Navy, he would still probably have died during the war. There is a thread about his ship, S. S. Bray Head, on this Forum here. It was sunk by a submarine on 14th March, 1917, and the 4th Mate was among the dead.

This may have been the same as 4th Officer; there must be an expert on ranks in the Merchant Navy on the Forum who can confirm or correct this.

Michael

[Clarissabell]

I would really appreciate seeing his photo, so yes please scan the piece, if it isn't too much bother. I cannot borrow it from the library apparently!

That US Draft record is very curious. You wouldn't expect such a unique name to throw up incorrect records.

Thanks Michael!

Regards, Clarissa

I will scan the photo as soon as my scanner has been fixed, and send it to your e-mail address.

Another lead is Dr. Young's will. This could be obtained for a small fee from the U.K.

Young will.JPG

I think that the U.S. record means that Benjamin P. Young, Dr. Young's son, emigrated to the U.S.A. and was drafted. The Americans have very full records of immigrants, and of soldiers in their army so, if you wanted to follow up this lead, it should be possible to find out quite a lot about him. This is from Ancestry, but my subscription does not include American records, I'm afraid, so I can't get a look at the original record.

Young draft.JPG

Michael

Thanks Michael - I have tracked down a son of the same name - which explains so much. I will have to do a little bit of digging here. Thank you so much for your help. The information about the S.S. Bray Head is very interesting and very tragic. I need to get jot it all down to get it straight in my head. Naming children after their parents can make work for researchers quite difficult sometimes. I will press on!

Cheers.

Clarissa.