Sam(uel) Mellor from Whitworth Rochdale Lancs

[Dave Silk]

Dear All

I have had fantastic success and help with my Paternal Grandfather I am trying to get the ball rolling on my Maternal Grandfather we think Sam not Samuel Mellor !! Grantowi has been amazing as we have tried to narrow the search down but we need a bit of help to see if we can identify his Regiment ??

I believe the local Regiment was Fusiliers but we have 6 entries for Sam and then even more for Samuel on various Regiments but 2 with Royal Fusiliers ! We believe his DoB is 7/6/1891 born in Shawforth Rochdale father John Mellor Mother - Martha Jane (Bentley). I need to get this Birth Certificate to confirm Sam Mellor /Rochdale/ 8E/73/3rd/1891

Many Thanks for any help forthcoming.

Regards

Dave

[ralphjd]

Lancashire BMD has a Sam Mellor registered in 1891 district Whitworth and Brandwood. There is a man of this name with papers on Ancestry in the RAMC BUT further in the documents there is one page with the number T/260814, a Lancashire Fusilier rubber stamp appended and a hand written address as follows - 3 Lockhall Whitworth. Your man ? Ralph.

Edit: NOT RAMC my mistake.

[ralphjd]

1911 census living with his Dad John (widower) in Shawforth (Whitworth) single, mother died 1897. 227 Market Street Whitworth (the main street) Did he marry Selina Parkinson in 1913 ?

[Dave Silk]

Rjaydee

Many Thanks !!

Yes we believe so Marriage was 1913 according to Grant !! I have 2 photos one I guess was Wedding as they are approx 4 or 5 years younger than the Pic I have posted with Wilfred who was born 1916 and died in 1922. Mellor was a common name around that area and I believe there are 2 Sam Mellor's born in 1891 in Rochdale. I don't have anything to tie them to 3 Lockhall Whitworth but Market Street is them for sure in 1911 Census !!

It may well be them as he would have moved in 1913 I guess when they married.

Will start having a look for some info on and Uniforms etc :-

T/260814 a Lancashire Fusilier

Cheers

Dave

[Dave Silk]

Taken from Rochdale Township where Memorial Gardens are improving for Centenary !!

Colonel Mike Glover, Regimental Secretary (Lancashire) and Commandant Greater Manchester Army Cadet Force for The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, said: “The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, formerly the Lancashire Fusiliers, are proud of their long association with Rochdale. Many volunteers from Rochdale served as Fusiliers during the First World War and we should not forget that young men from Rochdale continue to serve in the Regiment and have done Rochdale proud in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Collar on the Lancashire Fusiliers Tunic seems to Match to me and some similar photos with parade stick etc !

http://www.lancs-fusiliers.co.uk/gallerynew/WW1/1lfBrosinArms.jpg

http://www.lancs-fusiliers.co.uk/feature/Fushall/fushall.htm

Anyone with some knowledge to make an educated guess please.

Cheers Dave

[ralphjd]

Dave. Married St John Facit Rochdale 1913. Leave this with me, I have a contact who should be able to help. Ralph

[kenf48]

The shoulder title, although indistinct, does not appear to have the small 'grenade' associated with the LF. http://users.skynet.be/fd134244/SRD/Lancashire%20Fus.html I believe in 1916 it changed to a one piece but still with the grenade. Even blurry I'd expect to see a blob or some mark.

The riding crop may be a studio prop but the lanyard I'd associate with horse transport, drivers were issued with a jack knife to use 'for picking things out of horses hooves' etc.

As he's apparently wearing trousers I'd guess ASC or artillery.

There is a Sam Mellor who was a driver in the ASC (and RWF) in the mics - no idea if it's him!

Ken

[Dave Silk]

Thanks Ralph appreciate that. Cheers Ken the mystery deepens !

[Dave Silk]

Ken

I have looked at ASC uniform and could certainly be there is a Post called Uncle Clem ASC posted today a couple of the chaps uniform looks the same.

Anybody got any idea what he has on left and right Upper Tunic Breast Pockets Flaps one is a line under the button the other a Pin or badge.

Cheers

Dave

[Dave Silk]

Hi

Found his brother Bentley Mellor was in France with the ASC 1915 to 1919 I cant make out his no. from the Medal roll K4 or R4 6288 (1,3,7??) ! He was 8 years older so I think he followed his brother ??? Could it be a 3 feathers on his breast pocket to symbol RWF ????

So many little hints but am I just reading into it ??

Cheers

Dave

[kenf48]

Ken

I have looked at ASC uniform and could certainly be there is a Post called Uncle Clem ASC posted today a couple of the chaps uniform looks the same.

Anybody got any idea what he has on left and right Upper Tunic Breast Pockets Flaps one is a line under the button the other a Pin or badge.

Cheers

Dave

The one on the left is too blurred to make any sensible suggestion the one in his right pocket looks like a pocket watch chain. This photo of an ASC soldier shows a similar arrangement http://www.flickr.com/photos/matt1965/3443315702/in/photostream/ and again the man seated far left in this photo (also appears to be ASC cap badge)

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=70253 Unfortunately with theses old photos the one on the left may just be a smudge of dust, I don't think any regiment wore anything there on the pocket flap.

As for Bentley Mellor his number prefix is R4 which is Remounts, his occupation in 1911 was a carter so that fits.

The Sam Mellor I referred you too has the prefix T (Horsed Transport) in the ASC and then renumbered T4 in the second ASC number. The index in Ancestry is wrong the card clearly shows two ASC numbers. T4 usually means Horsed Transport Kitchener's 4th Army; the numbering looks suspiciously like a TF renumbering and if this continues through to the RWF it means he was in the 7th Bn. When he transferred to the RWF he would have been rebadged and as infantry was unlikely to be wearing the lanyard.

Ken

[Dave Silk]

Many Thanks Ken !

Would be grateful if you could include the Regt No's to see if we can confirm anything the earlier no. was :-

"T/260814 a Lancashire Fusilier rubber stamp appended and a hand written address as follows - 3 Lockhall Whitworth. Your man ? Ralph".

I signed up to Ancestry today for trial etc and found same as Grantowi 2 Sam Mellors no one matched ! Although had joy with his brother Bentley Mellor who was in the ASC sent to France 29 March 1915 did very well to do 4 years and still be a Private ;-) !

Sam's son in the photo Wilfred was born first quarter of 1916 ! I have had my insomniac 3 year old son in same pose and he is taller than me so I reckon Wilfred was 18 to 24 months in the photo putting it mid late 1917 to early 1918 ! Maybe he joined RWF late in the War ??

The photo is from a Postcard and in very good condition unfortunately the photo doesn't do justice !! It is definately something like a feather not a Mark etc !! I think u are spot on Ken the other one is a pocket watch chain !!!

I have looked for older brothers part from Bentley 1884 to 1931 but no joy !!

Charles Robert Mellor born 1881 Wardle Rochdale Lancs

James Abraham Mellor born 1879 Wardle

William Thomas Mellor born 1877 Wardle died 1926

John Richard Mellor born 1873 Wardle died 1957

Cheers

Dave

[ralphjd]

Did not make myself clear earlier, his regiment was the ASC, the officer discharging him from the forces was in the Lancs Fusiliers.

[ralphjd]

Bentley Mellors number was R4/062881

[ralphjd]

By looking at the 6 pages of his pension record it appears that he (Sam) never served overseas therefore no MIC.

[Dave Silk]

Ok Ralph thanks for confirming that ! Makes sort of sense now !!!

So maybe the law of averages point to Sam Mellor ASC !! So T/260814 was his ASC no. Ken mentioned a T4 no as well. ? And the bit about Royal Welch Fusiliers to tally up !! I guess on demob a local e or Clerk may have " Lancashire Fusilier rubber stamp appended and a hand written address as follows - 3 Lockhall Whitworth. Your man ? Ralph."

Probably need 1921 Census to confirm address if they didnt move from 1919 to 2 etc !!

Can you advise where you found info etc ?

Many Thanks for your help !

Dave

[ralphjd]

Found his pension papers on Ancestry, he is the only one, the other Sam Mellors papers are under service records and he came from Oldham. Royal W F ignore nowt to do with your Sam. The rubber stamp was from the depot he was discharged from, didn't actually serve in the L/Fs.

[Dave Silk]

Cheers Ralph

Interesting and a surprise ! Maybe explains why he was in trousers in his photo etc !! He worked pre War in the Mill but don't know why he never made it overseas !! Reading about ASC today it numbered nearly 350,000 men before foreign nationals/labourers and the logistics involved with the supply line was immense !!

Suppose some people had to live up to Ally Slooper Cavalry !! His brother Bentley got the 3 medals 1915 Star and standard 2 !!

If he never went overseas what is the connection with Royal Welch Fusiliers or are looking at wrong Man with `aSc to RWF??

Cheers

Dave

[Dave Silk]

Faster than a speeding question you've answered it !

[ralphjd]

[Dave Silk]

hi Ralph

Any dates or info etc ? Where he was in UK away from home etc? Where he joined up and dates etc ? What he was doing ? 6 pages of Pension info etc sounds a lot if only in UK ??

Regards

Dave

[ralphjd]

If you have signed up to Ancestry you should be able to access it yourself under Military Records.Wilfred was born 15-11-1915 according to page two of his record and I think he died in 1922 registered in Rochdale. Ralph.

[Dave Silk]

Thanks One and All !! Found 3 pages of Pension/Record of Service

Anyone good at Reading these ? I am struggling with bits below !

Got Sam for sure ASC but the Address I didn't recognise Blackfriars Norden on Pension History ! Signed/Called up in Bury ear;y 1917 although says enlisted June 1916 ??

Cant read Trade or calling ??

Medical Classification - E? I one ?? - any idea if reason for non combat role ?

Wife Selina Mellor -Married 6-9-13 Parish Church Facit which is Whitworth

Wilfred born 17-11-15 Ramsbottom which is Rochdale - boy in photo !!

There is reference to Lancashire Fusiliers 6-1-17 and ASC on same day which is his call up day ? You guys have probably looked at 100s of these and this is my first one so any ideas ? Maybe too many and split some off to ASC or on trades etc if i could work it out ??

Will do a bit more on Bentley his brother my Great Uncle as probably bit more interesting ! i know he married around 1910 seeing something earlier and died 1931 no children etc !!

Regards

Dave

[hillgorilla]

Sorry to be picky by Ramsbottom is not in Rochdale. Rochdale is not too far away.Have you considered a link to the quarries on the moors between Ramsbottom and Whitworth?

[Dave Silk]

Hi Hill Gorilla

Sorry thought it came under the Rochdale area ! I have heard of it and I have only really visited Whitworth to visit relatives etc so I don't really know anything about the Quarries etc.

The 1911 Census with his Dad John Mellor he was working as a Card Form Operatist in the Mill !! I cant decipher his trade on the Enlistment papers !! He had obviously moved to - is it Blackfriars Norden which i havent tracked down to a place yet ??

Regards

Dave