Explaining MIC- John TE Greaves

[Jjchiasson]

I have a few questions I hope someone can explain.

1. Starting with, the entries on the bottom right; AS/RFA/6928 then 24253/as.10

2. From what I understand, John was in the TF then was moved to the RA then disembodied back to the TF. Am I reading this correctly? Any way of knowing which part of the RA?

3. The 0 in front of the 4 Y&LR under Corps column and in front of the TE Medal line, is it significant?

4. T.E. Medal. Is this the Territorial Force Efficiency Medal?

5. Finally. Since he was in the TF, and served post WW1, would his service records have been held in a location that they can be accessed?

Thanks in advance.

JJ

[sotonmate]

JJ

Your questions,and my suggestions for answers:

1. Correspondence references,likely to be part of the processing trail for the TE medal.

AS/RFA a similar reference likely to communicate matters relevant to the issue of the two campaign medals,probably RFA advising the Y&L that the soldier served with them and that they expected the Y&L to issue the medals at war's end,which they did,confirmed by the medal ref prefix "O".

2. Units are usually listed in serving sequence.It will be difficult/unlikely for you to discover which RFA unit,unless the Y&L Medal Roll lists it. If it were an RFA Roll then they didn't ! You can get to see the Medal Rolls at Kew in the series WO329. War and Victory Medal Roll is in Ledger WO329/1597 page 3564. 1914-15 Star is in Ledger WO329/2786 page 248. Need to be seen at Kew. Disembodied 21.3.19 is when his service ended,whilst with 4 Y&L.

3. The "O" is the prefix for the medal issuing Command (York).

4. Likely TFEM,though initials usually seen in full.

5. The card shows his service ended on 21.3.19. Do you have other info to show that he re-joined ?

If he served after 1921 his records will be with the Army Personnel Centre,Glasgow. If you have looked and can't find them it is likely because of many records being lost to bombing in 1940.

[kenf48]

My Interpretation:

1 These are usually references produced in the Medals Office and generally their meaning is lost 'RFA' may or may not be a reference to Royal Field Artillery

2. He was in the Yorks and Lancs and apparently went overseas with the 1/4th Bn who landed in France on the 14th April and was part of 148th Brigade in the 49th (West Riding) Division. At some point he transferred to the RA but the '(TA)' may be significant because if it refers to the Territorial Army this was formed in 1920.

3.The 'slashed 0' in front of the Territorial Efficiency Medal indicated that medal was inscribed to the Yorks and Lancs (they'd already used * to name the Victory and BWM A/Sjt) i.e the entry refers back to the 4 Y & LR.

4. I would agree, as he has the 14/15 Star he could not receive the TF War Medal, but it's usually abbreviated to TEM, my guess is that he was serving with a Territorial Army unit of the RA post war when he qualified for this medal, I don't think his RA service refers to war service. As he only has a six digit number shown on the mic this was instituted for the 1/4th Bn. in March 1917, and we know he went overseas in 1915 it's likely he had a different number on enlistment, it's unusual for this not to be shown on the mic. He was 'disembodied' on 21 March 1919. I think it's significant the references to the TEM are in black ink and show that it was inscribed to the Yorks and Lancs were added at a different time to the original red ink entries. He would need 12 year's service (war service counting double) to qualify for this medal.

5. I don't know, it doesn't look like a post 1920 seven digit number but worth checking with the MOD http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/army.html

Ken

[Phil Evans]

The Artillery number could be 1917 re-numbering for 250 or 315 Brigade:

750001-755000 250 BDE, RFA TF/ 1/1 NORTHUMBRIAN BDE
750001-755000 315 BDE, RFA TF/ 2/1 NORTHUMBRIAN

or it could be 1920 renumbering:

721001 to 1396000 allotted to Royal Horse and Field Artillery. See Long Long Trail

I'm inclined to think the latter.

The York and Lancs batch commenced 4736001, but if they were counting back to calculate the qualifying period, it is possible that they only required his original number to add his wartime service to his subsequent Artillery Service. i.e. he did not return to the Y & L post-war.

The black writing must be 1928 at the earliest as it appears to refer to Army Order 30 of 1928.

Phil

[David_Underdown]

The TFEM became the TEM when TF changed to TA. So I'd go with starting with (4th) Y&L, transferred to artillery (retaining territorial status), presumably served again post war (I don't think we can draw conclusions from this as to which branch that service was in - rates of pay may give us a hint?), and built up enough time for his TEM. What's slightly curious is that there doesn't seem to be a pre-1917 number given on the card, despite the fact he entered a theatre of war in 1915.

[Jjchiasson]

Thank you all for your replies. Your perspectives give me several avenues to research and hopefully find some details on John's service.

Cheers

JJ