DaveR Posted 18 January , 2014 Share Posted 18 January , 2014 Does anyone have anything on 30th Div's concert party, the Bluebirds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 18 January , 2014 Share Posted 18 January , 2014 Member Kate Wills here has a penchant for such things. If she doesn't see this you could PM her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 19 January , 2014 Share Posted 19 January , 2014 Hello Dave, I know very little about The Bluebirds, though 30th Div seemed quite well off for entertainers. While training at Belton Park 30 Div boasted an orchestra conducted by Pte JC Reason. Whether he went on to join The Bluebirds I cannot say, but that is the only name I have. He is probably 16201 later Cpl Joseph C Reason of the King's. In addition to the Bluebirds, 89th Brigade had a good troupe called the Optimists. Sorry I can't be of more help, but if I come across anything, I'll let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveR Posted 20 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2014 Kate,thanks for that. Here's one for you. I don't know how this disparate group got together but the South Lancs man rightmost is 11th Bn.Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 20 January , 2014 Share Posted 20 January , 2014 Dave, Thankyou very much for The Ping Boys, a new one of the list. By the way, there were at least three army concert parties called The Bluebirds, and civilain concert parties also made use of the name. The origin could be a popular play by Maurice Maeterlink first performed in 1908, or a well-known silent film production company. The Ping Boys is clearly a variation on The West End hit show The Bing Boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 18 December , 2015 Share Posted 18 December , 2015 Is this The Optimists? (Taken from the scrapbook of Captain Tom Cartman, Bury Grammar old boy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 18 December , 2015 Share Posted 18 December , 2015 Mark I think so - photo certainly looks familiar. Is there a context for Cartman including a 89th Bde photo in his scrapbook? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 18 December , 2015 Share Posted 18 December , 2015 Yes, after serving as the bombing officer of 17th Manchesters from July 1916 to October 1917 during which time he was severely wounded, won the MC and was promoted to Captain, Cartman served with 30th Divisional Entertainment until April 1918 when he became 2 I/C of the combined 16th and 17th battalions. I am assuming that this is where the picture originates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 18 December , 2015 Share Posted 18 December , 2015 Thanks, Mark. Didnt know that about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 18 December , 2015 Share Posted 18 December , 2015 Hello Mark, These are The Duds of 19th King's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 21 December , 2015 Share Posted 21 December , 2015 Mark, I've been looking into The Duds. F. Miles Hodgson had been a professional actor for at least ten years prior to the war. In 1905 he lived at Mayfield Grove, Cheadle Hulme, Manchester, and by 1909 at 28 Addingham Road, Liverpool. He won much praise for his portrayal of Lt Gordon, the Commander in the "sensational sketch" Submarine F7, which strikes a wreck 25 ft below the surface and is wedged fast. The Nottingham Post reported "The sheer intensity of the performance grips the audience. Mr Miles Hodgson, as Lieutenant Gordon, the commander of the submarine, is the principal member of the cast, and gives a brilliant representation of those qualities which have made British sailors renowned." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 21 December , 2015 Share Posted 21 December , 2015 Thanks; so there is a Manchester as well as Liverpool connection, which is appropriate. I'll have to start thinking about repertoire. We'll aim to do about four or five numbers for our shows on the tour. I'd like to include 'A Perfect Day' which seems to have been a favourite of Tom Cartman's. ( The 1909 song, I hasten to add, not the one made famous by Lou Reed!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 17 July , 2018 Share Posted 17 July , 2018 (edited) Lots of information came out about The Optimists in last night's episode of Who Do You Think You Are. The subject was comedian Lee Mack, aka McKillop, whose great-grandfather was Billy Mac (real name William McKillop) and in the troupe. Billy Bray also gets some coverage. Quote Comedian Lee Mack was born Lee McKillop in the north of England [Edit by Mark: Southport], just like his McKillop great-grandfather, who was also a comedian, known as Billy Mac. Lee has a few playbills from Billy Mac's variety hall performances, but knows little more about him. Not long into his journey, Lee discovers that his great-grandfather was passionate about more than making people laugh. Billy Mac joined the first ever pals battalion in Liverpool at the start of the First World War and honed his act at the front lines in the Battle of the Somme. Here's the link to the programme on BBC iPlayer, but its availability will be limited: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bbzh45/who-do-you-think-you-are-series-15-3-lee-mack Roughly 15 mins in, there's sight of a newspaper review from the Grantham Journal, Sat 29 May 1915 of a 30th Division concert at Belton Park, which names several members of the troupe: F. Henson, LLCM (pianist) Harry Johnson (comedian) W. Wilson (tenor) Billy Mac (comedian) E.A. Stragnell (elocutionist) Billy Bray (comedian) Billy Mac was 15666 William A McKillop, 17/KLR (1st Liverpool Pals). His MIC This MIC is from this comprehensive article (including some other great pictures) here: https://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/featuredarticles/2018/who-do-you-think-you-are/lee-mack-871/ In the programme Lee Mack identifies the pierrot 3rd from the left as 'Billy Mac' I assumed 'Paderewski' in bottom right corner was the photographer, but as per Kate's info higher up, he's actually the pianist seen in that position in the image. As Kate says, a much more appropriate name for a pianist than a photographer! I guess 'Paderewski' might be F. Henson, LLCM mentioned at Grantham in 1915. There's an MIC for a 15513 HENSON, Pte Frederic, KLR, with the same 07 Nov 1915 embarkation date as 'Billy Mac', so also likely to be in one of the Liverpool Pals battalions. E.A. Stragnell, the elocutionist at the Grantham concert, is probably 15574 STRUGNELL, Pte Ernest A, KLR, again with 07 Nov 1915 embarkation date. Lee Mack also identifies 'Billy Mac' as being the pierrot 1st left in the other postcard we've seen of The Optimist ... In the programme, this is presented as a real postcard, not the plate from Stanley's 89th Brigade History. On the reverse is written .. "One of the many Concert Parties travelling about near the front line & they are the best I have seen so far. They are a Tommy crowd & the fellow at the piano is a real star." I've not attempted to trace any of the others yet. Mark Edited 17 July , 2018 by MBrockway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 18 July , 2018 Share Posted 18 July , 2018 LLCM presumably being Licentiate of the London College of Music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 18 July , 2018 Share Posted 18 July , 2018 Apologies - I thought LLCM was well known enough not to have to expand it! Yes: Henson was a holder of the Licentiate diploma of the London College of Music. Licentiate level was roughly equivalent to a BA degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 22 July , 2018 Share Posted 22 July , 2018 However, since posting the above, I've become aware of these posts by Kate Wills, which leaves me with a somewhat jaded view of Auntie Beeb ... Very disappointing to hear of strong scholarship being treated so badly. Speaking personally I would much rather have watched a scene where Kate discussed The Optimists with Lee Mack than the very bland lecturer the Beeb used, who seemed to have neither enthusiasm for the subject, nor much depth of knowledge. Lee Mack would have got a much better picture of his grandfather's experience and I think the 'drama' of such a scene would have been a great deal higher. BBC missed an open goal there IMHO. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 22 July , 2018 Share Posted 22 July , 2018 Thankyou Mark. That's very kind of you to say so. The Paderewski card posted above is the one used in the programme, and is DEFINATELY mine. I can tell by the marks and creases. The other is a crop of the original card, which has a sepia tone like the companion Paderewski card. My copy is quite worn, with a tear and creases around the edge. Yes there was much more that could have been said about The Optimists, who increased to a thirteen man troupe at one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 23 July , 2018 Share Posted 23 July , 2018 On 22/07/2018 at 04:34, MBrockway said: However, since posting the above, I've become aware of these posts by Kate Wills, which leaves me with a somewhat jaded view of Auntie Beeb ... On 22/07/2018 at 04:34, MBrockway said: Very disappointing to hear of strong scholarship being treated so badly. Speaking personally I would much rather have watched a scene where Kate discussed The Optimists with Lee Mack than the very bland lecturer the Beeb used, who seemed to have neither enthusiasm for the subject, nor much depth of knowledge. Lee Mack would have got a much better picture of his grandfather's experience and I think the 'drama' of such a scene would have been a great deal higher. BBC missed an open goal there IMHO. Mark Not Auntie Beeb directly of course, but te production company that make WDYTYA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 23 July , 2018 Share Posted 23 July , 2018 7 hours ago, David_Underdown said: Not Auntie Beeb directly of course, but te production company that make WDYTYA? Yep - in fact I've just posted that in the other topic before reading this! The production company is Wall To Wall Media Ltd. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Scott Posted 13 January , 2019 Share Posted 13 January , 2019 (edited) The 19th bn King's concert party "The Duds" performed a Grand Christmas Pantomime "Alladin" on 26th December 1917. A programme for the performance including a cast list is attached the battalion War Dairy (TNA :WO95/2334/1, appendices for December 1917) CASTE (sic) Alladin (A gay young spark) . . . . . . . . . . . . . Pte. F. Holliday. Emperor of China (Always short of cash) . . . . . . . . . . . Pte. E. Vincent. Abanayar (Ye wicked magician) . . . . . . . . . . . . Sgt. M Hodgson. Pekee (A disappointed lover) . . . . . . . . . . . Pte. J. Harrison. Grand Vizier (Pekee’s August Father) . . . . . . . . . Pte. L. Stone. Princess Badroubadour (The Emperor’s Daughter) . . . . . . . Cpl. T. Longridge. Widow Twankey (Ready for another Husband) . . . . . Cpl. R. Webster Pianist Cpl. A. J. Cornish Thomas McCaskie (No.50200) was present for the performance mentioned it in a letter to my great aunt Margaret Ellen (Maggie) Rule: We had our Xmas dinner yesterday in the Y.M.C.A. hall [.] we had a splendid dinner there was roast pork and apple sauce and vegetables then we had plum pudding [.] there was plenty of everything apples, oranges, dates, tins of sweets 2 pks of cigarettes and a box of matches and a cigar for each man and as much beer as they could drink. After dinner the Duds as they call them that’s our concert party gave us a show from two till half past four then we went back to camp for tea [.] then at night we had a sing song in the recreation hut that we have in the camp. Thomas McCaskie married Maggie Rule after the War. He won an MM during the German Michael Offensive at Voormezeele on 29th April 1918. He ended the war as n acting Sergeant. He was a butcher by trade and in 1925 opened his own butcher's shop in Wooler Northumberland. Edited 13 January , 2019 by Ian Scott omitted TNA War diary reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 22 March , 2020 Share Posted 22 March , 2020 (edited) On 18/12/2015 at 10:45, Mark Hone said: Is this The Optimists? (Taken from the scrapbook of Captain Tom Cartman, Bury Grammar old boy) Hello Mark, An old post but I know you are still active so the observations merit a nudge forward. I believe this to be the "Very Lights" which was the 19 KLR Concert Party (Source: Brig Gen F.C. Stanley "History of the 89th Brigade" / notes on Tom Cartman's photo) Further to this thread we can also from his book that the 30 Div Concert Party was "The Bluebirds", 89th Brigade "The Optimists" and 20 KLR "The Duds" Regards Ian Edited 22 March , 2020 by TullochArd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 22 March , 2020 Share Posted 22 March , 2020 Thanks very much for this, I shall add it to my information about Tom Cartman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 22 March , 2020 Share Posted 22 March , 2020 23 minutes ago, Mark Hone said: Thanks very much for this, I shall add it to my information about Tom Cartman. No drama Mark. Although well before Tom Cartman's time in 30 Div Entertainments he might have been interested in the following contemporary "independent" reviews on his Brigade concert parties (Source: Geoffrey Thurlow, 10th Sherwood Foresters, 17th Div to Vera Brittain, which appear in 'Letters from a Lost Generation') 15 December 1916. “After tea we went to the Very Lights, a concert party of censored Div. which was excellent... The dancing and everything else was topping but perhaps this was due to the fact that there was a stringband as opposed to the ordinary blare without violins etc. The man who was Columbine danced perfectly and was a jolly good impersonator. Our div lady is hopeless; always mincing about and very gawky, grinning inanely the while! In fact our 'Duds' are hopeless where compared to the Very Lights…” 16 December 1916. “After tea we had priceless baths at the Divisional baths and when clean went to the Duds, our Divisional concert party. They are jolly good but not so good as the Very Lights which belonged to censored Div we relieved" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Scott Posted 9 May , 2020 Share Posted 9 May , 2020 The Cartman photograph is of the 'The Duds' 19th battlion King's (Liverpool Regiment) concert party (see Graham Maddocks, Liverpool Pals, Leo Cooper 1991, p 139). Some of the same names occur on a programme for 'Alladin' performed Christmas 1917 and included in the Battalion War diary in the Appendices for December 1917. On 13/01/2019 at 15:09, Ian Scott said: The 19th bn King's concert party "The Duds" performed a Grand Christmas Pantomime "Alladin" on 26th December 1917. A programme for the performance including a cast list is attached the battalion War Dairy (TNA :WO95/2334/1, appendices for December 1917) CASTE (sic) Alladin (A gay young spark) . . . . . . . . . . . . . Pte. F. Holliday. Emperor of China (Always short of cash) . . . . . . . . . . . Pte. E. Vincent. Abanayar (Ye wicked magician) . . . . . . . . . . . . Sgt. M Hodgson. Pekee (A disappointed lover) . . . . . . . . . . . Pte. J. Harrison. Grand Vizier (Pekee’s August Father) . . . . . . . . . Pte. L. Stone. Princess Badroubadour (The Emperor’s Daughter) . . . . . . . Cpl. T. Longridge. Widow Twankey (Ready for another Husband) . . . . . Cpl. R. Webster Pianist Cpl. A. J. Cornish The Cartman photograph is of the 'The Duds' 19th battlion King's (Liverpool Regiment) concert party (see Graham Maddocks, Liverpool Pals, Leo Cooper 1991, p 139). Some of the names in the photograph - Miles Hodgson, Bob Webster, Jack Harrison, T E Longridge, Alf Cornish and F C Holliday - are alos in the programme for 'Alladin' performed Christmas 1917 and included in the Battalion War diary in the Appendices for December 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 9 May , 2020 Share Posted 9 May , 2020 2 hours ago, Ian Scott said: The Cartman photograph is of the 'The Duds' 19th battlion King's (Liverpool Regiment) concert party (see Graham Maddocks, Liverpool Pals, Leo Cooper 1991, p 139). Some of the same names occur on a programme for 'Alladin' performed Christmas 1917 and included in the Battalion War diary in the Appendices for December 1917. The Cartman photograph is of the 'The Duds' 19th battlion King's (Liverpool Regiment) concert party (see Graham Maddocks, Liverpool Pals, Leo Cooper 1991, p 139). Some of the names in the photograph - Miles Hodgson, Bob Webster, Jack Harrison, T E Longridge, Alf Cornish and F C Holliday - are alos in the programme for 'Alladin' performed Christmas 1917 and included in the Battalion War diary in the Appendices for December 1917. Yes Ian - no doubt this is 19 KLR as confirmed by the writing on the border of the photo and the corresponding names on the photo/mentioned in the War Diary ……. the latter which you have kindly highlighted. So, if it's a toss up between Brigadier Stanley's recollection of events in his 'History of the 89th Brigade' or the War Diary - then the War Diary it is. The photo is of the Duds. Now what do make of this related post ………. could it be 89 Bde Pierrot Troupe a.k.a. "The Optimists" on their 1917 UK fund raiser for their Comforts Fund? Regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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