Seadog Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 Perhaps someone will post an image of the plaque which was installed on the 9/02/14 Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 Frm the 12th bavarian infantry Regiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 He seems to have been an orphan, missing at Douaumont, declared dead in August 1918. I wonder how he was chosen, an unmarried orpahn, usually he would have been dead and forgotten.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 Thanks Chris, I am no doubt stating the obvious but I take it that the plaque does not give an obvious nationality which I must admit comes as a surprise to me as there does not seem any reason not to do so?. Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 By coincidence, the 12th Bavarian Infantry is one of 4-5 regiments I concentrate one, so i am happy to see they chose the regiment. I did a small write up on his Battalion at Douaumont a few years ago... http://www.kaiserscross.com/40047/93801.html Terrible place to have been.... Thanks Chris, I am no doubt stating the obvious but I take it that the plaque does not give an obvious nationality which I must admit comes as a surprise to me as there does not seem any reason not to do so?. Norman I take it that it is right up on the roof, that is why the Plaques above go in the other direction? Only thing that gives him away is the regt. The name is of course German, but a number of french soldiers had German names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 Thanks for posting the photo Chris, I think in the spirit of the present day there is no need to mention nationality, the French names aren't annotated French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 Thanks Chris I do not particulary agree with placing a named plaque to one of the German fallen in this place but as this was a decision that both the French and German authorities must have made I can see no reason why his nationality is not included on the plaque and in a way I suppose that the job has only been partly done in this case. Regards Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 Hi Norman, None of the plaques has a nationality as far as I know, but i think the gesture is about the dead, and not about the nations? best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 ... I take it that the plaque does not give an obvious nationality... It gives it away just as much as the French plaques list the units as obviously French ... ... the regimental designation of 'K.B' (Königlich Bayerische) gives it away as a German (in this case Bavarian) unit (as does the 'I.R' for Infanterie-Regiment - as opposed to the French 'R.I.' for Régiment d'Infanterie) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 I take your point Dave but I bet such subtle distinctions will be totally lost on the great majority of visitors to this place. After all if both nations were determined to made such a gesture why then not announce such on the plaque or was there a fear that placing the first plaque of this type here was likely to cause some kind of problem? Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 Well... you would need a scaffold to reach it... which I assume is why they put it there... they cannot forget about the disgusting vandalism that took place when the Monument to the Moslem Soldiers was opened.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 all if both nations were determined to made such a gesture why then not announce such on the plaque or was there a fear that placing the first plaque of this type here was likely to cause some kind of problem? I note that Peter's 'next door neighbour' Joseph Victor Manassy of the 2nd Engineer Regiment's (a local(ish) man killed at Ft.de Vaux 2nd June 1916) plaque looks pretty new too. I don't suppose there was any hype when this one was placed...possibly around the same time? The German plaque follows exactly the same formula as the French with nothing 'political' or otherwise around it... and so it should... 'unity in death' etc, ctc... Personally, I don't really see any 'gesture' or anything at play here. Just simple remembrance and reverence. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 Hi Dave, both were placed on the same day in the same ceremony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 10 February , 2014 Share Posted 10 February , 2014 ...The German plaque follows exactly the same formula as the French ... Hang on! No it doesn't. Just noticed that both Peter's and Victor's plaques include dates of birth and death also (with Victor's also including place of death). Long time since I've looked at these plaques so can't quite remember ... is this standard for the larger stones, or is this something new? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 13 February , 2014 Share Posted 13 February , 2014 ... Just noticed that both Peter's and Victor's plaques include dates of birth and death also (with Victor's also including place of death). Long time since I've looked at these plaques so can't quite remember ... is this standard for the larger stones, or is this something new? ... Just looked at some of my old images of the interior.... nothing new or unusual here (some have dates and details, others don't. Seems variable) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JADOT Posted 16 February , 2014 Share Posted 16 February , 2014 J'ai interrogé le site de Notre Dame de Lorrette Voici la réponse qui apporte des précisions Bonjour Monsieur, Je vous remercie pour votre mail et pour l’intérêt que vous portez au futur mémorial international de Notre-Dame-de-Lorette. Soucieuse de rendre hommage à la mémoire de tous les combattants morts sur son sol entre 1914 et 1918, la Région Nord–Pas-de-Calais a décidé, avec le soutien de la Direction de la Mémoire du Patrimoine et des Archives du Ministère de la Défense, d’ériger, sur le plateau de Notre-Dame-de-Lorette, face à la nécropole nationale française, un mémorial international. Il s’agira d’inscrire les noms des quelques 600 000 soldats de toutes nationalités tombés en Flandre française et en Artois entre 1914 et 1918 ; les noms seront disposés par ordre alphabétique, toutes nationalités mélangées, amies et ennemies d’hier. Une grande opération a été lancée par la Région Nord–Pas-de-Calais en 2011, en partenariat avec la DMPA du Ministère de la Défense, la Commonwealth War Graves Commission pour les combattants britanniques, et le Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge (VDK) pour les Allemands. Elle a abouti à l’été 2013, à l’établissement d’une liste de 600 000 noms environ. La liste des soldats britanniques comporte 294 000 noms d’hommes issus de tout l’Empire britannique : Anglais, Ecossais, Gallois, Irlandais, Canadiens, Australiens, Néo-Zélandais, Sud- Africains, Indiens. La liste allemande, fournie par le VDK, comporte 174 000 noms ; elle ne contient pas l’intégralité des tués allemands, en raison de la destruction d’une partie des archives pendant la Seconde Guerre mondiale. La Région Nord–Pas-de-Calais a mis sur pied une équipe pour saisir la liste des soldats français tués sur le front de Flandre française et d’Artois, à partir de la base de données des « Morts pour la France » fournie par la DMPA ; leur nombre s’élève à 105 000. Enfin, les combattants d’autres nationalités ont été recensés, notamment les Belges, Portugais, Russes et Roumains. Vous pourrez découvrir des visuels de présentation du projet sous le lien : http://www.darchitectures.com/memorial-notre-dame-de-lorette-a760.html Le mémorial sera inauguré le 11 novembre 2014, par le Président de la République, M. François Hollande. Espérant avoir ainsi répondu utilement à votre interrogation, je vous prie de croire en l’expression de mes cordiales salutations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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