wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 15 January , 2014 Share Posted 15 January , 2014 Hey everyone, I know this is strictly speaking off topic, but does anyone have any photographs or information on interwar patrol uniform? Unfortunately as there isn't a forum or a great interest in the inter war period getting information about the period is like getting blood from a stone. from what I've been able to find out I think the patrol uniform was replaced by dress blues in the early 30's? Over the last few months I have managed to acquire what I believe is a patrol uniform side cap originally buttoned to the Cheshire regiment, and a pair of trousers dated 1927 made of the same material and colour. I'd like photographs for what the uniform would have looked like when complete so i know what to look out for when searching for a tunic. warm regards, Haydn . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 15 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2014 the trousers are 4 button fly, have a slash pocket either side, a pocket watch pocket to the front right, and two pockets with a tab over each to the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbrydon Posted 15 January , 2014 Share Posted 15 January , 2014 If the badge on the side cap is a white metal collar badge which it appears to be in the photo then it is a territorial battalion item. P.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 15 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2014 If the badge on the side cap is a white metal collar badge which it appears to be in the photo then it is a territorial battalion item. P.B. Hello P.B. The badge had intrigued me, it is a standard brass version. but would a collar badge be on the side cap rather than the cap badge? the badge due to the verdigris to the rear and collected grime appears to have been with the cap for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 15 January , 2014 Share Posted 15 January , 2014 Haydn, Here is an internet photo of an inter-war years officer's blue patrol jacket, it is not for the Cheshire Regiment, but should give you an idea of the style etc. The jacket has a high collar, chest pockets and lower bag pockets. It has embossed brass regimental buttons and shoulder straps with gilt Kings Crown rank insignia. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 15 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2014 Haydn, Here is an internet photo of an inter-war years officer's blue patrol jacket, it is not for the Cheshire Regiment, but should give you an idea of the style etc. The jacket has a high collar, chest pockets and lower bag pockets. It has embossed brass regimental buttons and shoulder straps with gilt Kings Crown rank insignia. Regards, LF Hello LF, I believe I saw that photograph when searching, what date was attributed to the item do you know? Another question would be is it an officer piece of uniform or did OR's have the patrol uniform too? Would ammunition boots be worn with this uniform? As they came in around 1927. thank you everyone for chipping in so far. warm regards, haydn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 15 January , 2014 Share Posted 15 January , 2014 what date was attributed to the item do you know? It is listed, as circa 1939. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted 16 January , 2014 Share Posted 16 January , 2014 Just as a matter of curiosity- the tailor was in Waukegan Illinois. Is there a story about how a British patrol uniform came to be made in the US? Seems a bit far out to be an officer performing diplomatic duties- a Washington tailor would be more understandable. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 16 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2014 Just as a matter of curiosity- the tailor was in Waukegan Illinois. Is there a story about how a British patrol uniform came to be made in the US? Seems a bit far out to be an officer performing diplomatic duties- a Washington tailor would be more understandable. Greg Hey Greg, unfortunately I wouldn't be able to tell you any back story. but it's made from the same type of material and colour to the London made side cap. And has creases ironed into the legs that supports military use. Military envoy? regards, Haydn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 16 January , 2014 Share Posted 16 January , 2014 (edited) Just as a matter of curiosity- the tailor was in Waukegan Illinois. Is there a story about how a British patrol uniform came to be made in the US? Seems a bit far out to be an officer performing diplomatic duties- a Washington tailor would be more understandable. Greg Waukegan is basically a Northern Suburb of Chicago (county seat of Lake County) - significant diplomatic presence in Chicago including a British Consulate (not sure how long that has been in operation but there is one there now). Chris Apparently there was a Consulate there in the relevant period: Consul-General, Chicago(from 1907): Alexander Finn: 1907-1909 Sir Horace D. Nugent, K.B.E., C.M.G.: 1909-1923 Herbert A. Richards, C.B.E.: 1923-1928 Sir Godfrey D.N. Haggard, K.C.M.G., C.V.O., O.B.E.: 1928-1932 Lewis E. Bernays, O.B.E.: 1932-1942 Edited 16 January , 2014 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 16 January , 2014 Share Posted 16 January , 2014 What is the address on the Hawkes & Co label on the side cap. It looks to read 14 Piccadilly which would make it pre 1911 or 1912 when they moved to no 1 saville rd, though they used late of 14 piccadilly for years after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 16 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2014 What is the address on the Hawkes & Co label on the side cap. It looks to read 14 Piccadilly which would make it pre 1911 or 1912 when they moved to no 1 saville rd, though they used late of 14 piccadilly for years after. the label states "Hawkes & Co No. 14 Piccadilly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 16 January , 2014 Share Posted 16 January , 2014 the label states "Hawkes & Co No. 14 Piccadilly" Thanks. Pre WWI then for the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 16 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2014 Thanks. Pre WWI then for the cap. cheers for the information, so about 10-20 years older than I thought ha ha, interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 19 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2014 Hey everyone, A friend of mine was very kind enough to send me a picture of what a pre-war patrol uniform jacket looks like, unpleated square pockets and high collar, I don't suppose anyone has any photographs of this type of uniform being worn? So I can see what type of boots are worn and how it is worn correctly. warm regards, Haydn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 19 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2014 also more pictures of the trousers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted 20 January , 2014 Share Posted 20 January , 2014 I can't help with a period pic in wear but here is another example of a circa 1911 Patrol jacket. For an officer in the 1/4th Hampshires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 20 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2014 I can't help with a period pic in wear but here is another example of a circa 1911 Patrol jacket. For an officer in the 1/4th Hampshires. thanks Jerry, it all helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 24 January , 2014 Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Although showing the Royal marines version of the uniform, this image shows a full length appearance that is correct. Notice the internal white collar, fitted via studs inside the jacket collar, the strapped down overalls below the instep of the boots (leather wellingtons) and the way the sword belt is worn under the jacket. I agree that your Field Service Cap is for the Cheshire Regt, whose officers wore a silver (officers) collar badge on that head dress. Spurs were also worn by officers of field rank (Maj through to Col). Collar badges were not worn until after WW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 24 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Although showing the Royal marines version of the uniform, this image shows a full length appearance that is correct. Notice the internal white collar, fitted via studs inside the jacket collar, the strapped down overalls below the instep of the boots (leather wellingtons) and the way the sword belt is worn under the jacket. I agree that your Field Service Cap is for the Cheshire Regt, whose officers wore a silver (officers) collar badge on that head dress. Spurs were also worn by officers of field rank (Maj through to Col). Collar badges were not worn until after WW1. thank you for the insightful information, it would appear most regiments have unpleated top pockets but RM don't, odd that you say the cap should have a silver version, the one that came with it and has been part of it for a very long time is the standard brass type, I am currently watching a jacket at the moment, was made in August 1922, by West and Son LTD, 152 New Bond Street, London, W.1. , has the internal white collar and named to a RAMC officer but unfortunately a mismatch of buttons, so may be worth being a donor jacket to put Cheshire regiment buttons on until I can find an Original Cheshire regiment item. I have a pair of spurs too that I have restored, which meant recreating some leather pieces, but retaining what could be saved. what type of boot is pictured? any chance of finding a photograph of a contemporary item to look for. and for an infantry regiment I assume a sam brown would be worn over the jacket? thank you again for the addition, warm regards, Haydn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 January , 2014 Share Posted 25 January , 2014 thank you for the insightful information, it would appear most regiments have unpleated top pockets but RM don't, odd that you say the cap should have a silver version, the one that came with it and has been part of it for a very long time is the standard brass type, I am currently watching a jacket at the moment, was made in August 1922, by West and Son LTD, 152 New Bond Street, London, W.1. , has the internal white collar and named to a RAMC officer but unfortunately a mismatch of buttons, so may be worth being a donor jacket to put Cheshire regiment buttons on until I can find an Original Cheshire regiment item. I have a pair of spurs too that I have restored, which meant recreating some leather pieces, but retaining what could be saved. what type of boot is pictured? any chance of finding a photograph of a contemporary item to look for. and for an infantry regiment I assume a sam brown would be worn over the jacket? thank you again for the addition, warm regards, Haydn The plain chest pockets were an Army pattern, between the wars. After WW2, in the 1950s, the pleated type (as per RM) were adopted. Collar badges were made of different materials at different times, but they were generally of a more expensive quality for officers. I will check to see if the Cheshires wore gilding metal badges between the wars. The type of boots worn were leather 'Wellingtons' and these are easily found online. Just search for 'Mess Dress Wellingtons'. Sam Brownes were worn when on parade with troops and wearing medals, gloves, and the peaked, coloured forage cap, but not if in undress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 3 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2014 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1900-BOER-WAR-PRINT-STRATHCONAS-HORSE-MOUNTED-TROOP-FULL-UNIFORM-/140962001417?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item20d1fd7209 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1900-SIR-H-E-COLVILE-KCMG-9TH-DIV-S-AFRICAN-FIELD-FORCE-/160538285134?pt=UK_art_prints_GL&hash=item2560d3d44e some interesting lots showing pre ww1 patrol uniform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 4 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 4 February , 2014 Jacket arrived, Jacket is dated August 1922, made by West & Son. Ltd. 152 new bond street, named to a Lieutenant Colonel William Irvine FitzGerald Powell who served with the RAMC during both WW1 & ww2. Having a ww1 trio of medal ribbons (1914-15 Star, British War Medal 1914-18 and Victory Medal) and also on Nov 21st 1936 he received the 'Order of the Nile' in recognition of being the Principle Medical officer for the Egyptian Army. On 19 Aug 1943 Arrived at Malta where he took over command of 39th General Hospital on 20 August, following the departure of Colonel A C MacDonald to 4th General Hospital.He was still in Malta in 1944 where he was Officer Commanding 39th General Hospital. Interesting mix of buttons, all the buttons along the front are RAMC buttons bar the top one which is Egyptian army, all other small buttons are also Egyptian army. just need to lose a bit of room on the gut and it'll fit perfectly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 February , 2014 Share Posted 18 February , 2014 Jacket arrived, Jacket is dated August 1922, made by West & Son. Ltd. 152 new bond street, named to a Lieutenant Colonel William Irvine FitzGerald Powell who served with the RAMC during both WW1 & ww2. Having a ww1 trio of medal ribbons (1914-15 Star, British War Medal 1914-18 and Victory Medal) and also on Nov 21st 1936 he received the 'Order of the Nile' in recognition of being the Principle Medical officer for the Egyptian Army. On 19 Aug 1943 Arrived at Malta where he took over command of 39th General Hospital on 20 August, following the departure of Colonel A C MacDonald to 4th General Hospital. He was still in Malta in 1944 where he was Officer Commanding 39th General Hospital. Interesting mix of buttons, all the buttons along the front are RAMC buttons bar the top one which is Egyptian army, all other small buttons are also Egyptian army. just need to lose a bit of room on the gut and it'll fit perfectly! It's a nice example and seems to be in good condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercian Posted 17 November , 2014 Share Posted 17 November , 2014 To me the side cap in question has a couple of concerns with the buttons and cap/collar badge. It has a officers cap/collar badge and other ranks brass buttons, hence the wear of the polishing. From what I have researched side caps ( Field Service Caps) were worn between c 1894-1902-5 a collar badge was worn in the side cap by all ranks, regular officers wearing silver and gilt, OR’s brass collar badges of a different pattern. Volunteers wore the same patterns, but silvered and white metal. In 1898 the familiar cap badge with the scroll was introduced and was first worn on 1st December 1900. Which would date the cap to before 1901. Officers, regular and volunteers would have had regimental buttons on their caps in the respective metals, OR’s would have had General Service QVC buttons in their respective metals . OR’s regimental brass buttons were introduces c 1924. Regular officers never had a collar badge in brass, only in silver and gilt and of course bronze patterns which came in c 1904. I have seen the bronze collar badges with the bronze rubbed off so the brass is showing which could account for the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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