royal lancashire regiment

[Guest bernard murtha]

Private Thomas Heptonstall Wharton Regiment No.4066 1st Jan 1914 - 31st Dec 1920.Thomas was my grandfather who served with the Royal Lancashire reg. and I believe served in the Gallipoli campaign before the Western front.Could anyone provide any further information please? Any ideas why he was not demobbed until D ec 1920?

[sotonmate]

Bernard

Welcome to the Forum !

The Medal Index Card of Thomas H Wharton,4066 and later 201308 (1917 re-numbering of the Territorial Force) of the 1/4 Battalion King's Own Royal Lancaster Regiment,has no reference to serving at Gallipoli,in fact he was not in a war zone in 1915 as the Card has no date shown into war or entitlement to a 1914-15 Star. He is likely to have landed in France sometime in 1916 as his unit was part of 164 Brigade of 55 Division. Here some info on it's war,this from the Long Long Trail,at top left of this page,and which contains a vast amount of info on WW1:

http://www.1914-1918.net/55div.htm

There is more to read in more detail in the unit War Diary which is kept at the National Archives at Kew under ref WO95/2922,but not yet digital.

55 Division served into 1919 when they returned to the UK from Belgium for de-mob. There were bodies of our troops doing things all over the place after the Armistice and all I can suggest is that he volunteered to be involved elsewhere and away from his unit until into 1920. There was presence in Russia,Indian borders and several other smaller Mid East areas.

Edit: Maybe I shouldn't assume that he was 1/4 all the while,he certainly was with the second number 201308. You will need to check the original Medal Roll to be sure which Bn he served on first landing in France. The Medal Card codes H/2/103B19p3094 relate to the ledger WO329/681 page 3094 at Kew. This should say which Battalion. If you can't get to Kew you could ask here in the Look Ups Section for someone to help when they visit.

[Guest bernard murtha]

Lieut-General

Thanks for your speedy reply.I should have stated in my message that The Medal Index Card of Thomas Heptonstall Wharton is incorrect and that is what is causing me so much trouble.

Thomas Heptonstall Wharton 4066 is correct and his regiment is correct, however regimental number 201308 is private Thomas Henry Wharton of Kings Own (Royal Lancs Reg ) who died of wounds on 7th August 1917 in Flanders,his battalion was 1/4th.

Thomas Henry Wharton is listed in soldiers who died in 1914-1918 war,however only one medal card is index for Thomas H Wharton with regimental numbers 4066 and 201308.It would

appear that the two soldiers were recorded on the same card, and therefore it is not possible to know what medals both were entitled too.Any suggestions for further research would be welcome.

Thanks Bernard

[ralphjd]

Bernard. Give the regimental museum a whirl up in Lancaster, been very good to me in the past. Ralph.

[IRC Kevin]

Lieut-General

Thanks for your speedy reply.I should have stated in my message that The Medal Index Card of Thomas Heptonstall Wharton is incorrect and that is what is causing me so much trouble.

Thomas Heptonstall Wharton 4066 is correct and his regiment is correct, however regimental number 201308 is private Thomas Henry Wharton of Kings Own (Royal Lancs Reg ) who died of wounds on 7th August 1917 in Flanders,his battalion was 1/4th.

Thomas Henry Wharton is listed in soldiers who died in 1914-1918 war,however only one medal card is index for Thomas H Wharton with regimental numbers 4066 and 201308.It would

appear that the two soldiers were recorded on the same card, and therefore it is not possible to know what medals both were entitled too.Any suggestions for further research would be welcome.

Thanks Bernard

I've only just seen this, Bernard or I would have jumped in earlier. The 1/4th King's Own battalion number of 4066 for Thomas Henry Wharton is definitely correct. He was one of a batch of over 60 men from the Loyal North Lancs who were transferred en-masse to 1/4 King's Own from the IBD at Rouen on 1/7/16. Both his 4-figure and 6-figure numbers fit precisely into the number sequence given to these men. For example, Francis Plimley, who was 4065 became 201307.

Only the 6th battalion of the King's Own served at Gallipoli- he would have had a 5-figure number if he'd served with them and if Thomas Heptonstall Wharton was issued with a King's Own number of 4066, unless he was a regular, this would make him either the 1/5 or 2/5 Battalion. 4061- 4070 are missing from the sequence in my database for the 5th Battalion, so the men in this sequence were either discharged, or were transferred to another regiment before they left England, for example the Machine Gun Corps, or did not serve overseas. The only Thomas Wharton in the King's Own medal rolls is Thomas Henry. Those from the 1/4th, who had not been transferred to another regiment and who were not discharged in March 1919 when the battalion returned home (mostly those who had been conscripted very late in the war) were posted to 1/King's Own in Dublin to serve out their time.

Forgive me for mentioning, as it happens fairly often, but I'm presuming you haven't mixed up The King's and the King's Own, the first being the King's Liverpool, the latter the Royal Lancs? A King's Own medal will have 'R. Lancs. R.' engraved on the rim. The cap badge and shoulder title for the 1/4 King's Own are below, if you have a photo of your Grandfather in uniform to compare them to.

regards,

Kevin