Mass transfers between KSLI to Devonshire Regiment, Devonshire Regiment to Duke of Cornwalls Light Infantry

[jp1885]

Hi - I've been pointed in the direction of this excellent site from the Lead-Adventure forum.

I am researching my great uncle's WW1 records -

Private John Lee Price, born 1889 in Herefordshire.

I have found a record on Ancestry.com, showing that he served in the 8th service battalion, Gloucestershire regiment and died on 1st sept 1918. Location stated as France & Flanders.

His service number was 12934.

However, when I look him up on the commonwealth war graves commission website, it has his grave Karasouli military cemetery in Greece.

The date is the same, but it has his battalion as the 2nd Glos. http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/623739/PRICE,%20J%20L

Can anyone explain this discrepancy?

I have also found the medal roll for my grandfather, private Walter Thomas Price (32789 Devonshire regiment and 32516 Duke of Cornwall's light infantry) but have been unable to find much else about his service record. He survived the war and lived until 1978.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[anthony osborne]

He could well have been wounded or taken ill as was often the case and then been posted to the 2nd battalion as part of a reinforcement draft?

His medal index card (MIC) throws another battalion into the mix - it shows John serving with the 9th battalion.

He landed in France on 20th September 1915 and was eligible for the 1915 Star, BWM and VM.

Not sure how these official sources or documents can get mixed up although I have found similar discrepancies between official sources and war memorials - millions of men were recorded and I suppose errors were bound to happen?

The war diaries may be of help as will the Long Long Trail (link above) for tracing battalion movements, engagements etc.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for anything else.

All the best,

Ant

[jp1885]

Thanks very much for taking the trouble to take a look and reply.

Very interesting information - I'll check the link and see what I can find.

Any hints on how I can find my granddad Walter's battalion(s)

[anthony osborne]

Walter's MIC will give a reference number to the right of each medal awarded. This number refers to the battalion medal roll which should be at the National Archives at Kew. The only sure way is to look at the medal rolls for the battalion - his name will be in there showing which battalions he served in.

His local roll of honour might also show his battalion (but is not always accurate).

Another method is to search Ancestry (if you have access) for service numbers close to Walter's - you may come up trumps and find numbers either side of very close - this will give you a clue as to when he is likely to have joined up.

There are lots of battalion specific experts on this site so if you re-post giving battalion and service number details for each man you may get a better response.

It may also be worth searching on the internet by regiment - there may be specific information for each man that served or a regimental museum that may be worth contacting - I was very lucky with my G.Grandpa after contacting the Royal Berkshire's museum (The Wardrobe) and even found reference to him joining the 8th Battalion (he was transferred from the ASC with 36 other bakers at the end of March 1918).

I'll have a trawl myself later to see what I turn up.

In the mean time - good luck. I suspect though that you may need to plan a trip to Kew.

Ant

[auchonvillerssomme]

Interesting. he appears to be the only anomaly, I have checked the hard copy of SDGW and there isn't a transcription error.

Mick

[jp1885]

Thanks guys - looks like I've given myself a project!

I'll post a seperate thread for granddad.

[jp1885]

Reposting from http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=191216 on the advice of Mr. Osbourne...

I'm looking for details on my grandfather, Private Walter Thomas Price (32789 Devonshire regiment and 32516 Duke of Cornwall's light infantry).

Born 7th Sept 1896 in Herefordshire, he survived the war and lived until 1978.

I'm new to this, but have access to Ancestry, in which I have drawn a blank so far.

[sotonmate]

jp

You can find which Battalion from the original medal roll which is at Kew under WO329/1212 page 865. This Roll was issued by the last served Regiment,the DCLI,but should still show the Devonshire Battalion when first landed (after 31Dec1915).Not online though ,and needs to be looked up on site.

Sotonmate

[jp1885]

Many thanks!

[anthony osborne]

There is a Gloster Regiment museum which may be a great help in your research:

www.glosters.org.uk/

These 2 sites may help with your Grandad:

www.devonheritage.org/DevonshireRegiment.htm

http://judibee.hubpages.com/hub/Duke-of-Cornwalls-Light-Infantry-in-World-War-1

Good luck,

Ant

[jp1885]

Thanks for the links - already found John Lee Price in the Glosters website - will check out the others too.

[jp1885]

Hi,

Apologies for the threadomancy, but I found some information from the Forces War Records website that I'd like to run past you. Searching for Walter T Price, DCLI brings up the following records:-

First Name: W T
Surname: Price
Rank: Honorary Lieutenant
Gallantry Awards: Mentioned in Despatches

Gazette Info: Gazette No. 29072. Mentioned in Dispatches. The Following Despatch has been received by the Secretary of State for War from the Field-Marshal Commanding-in-Chief, British Forces in the Field. I have the honour to bring to notice names of those whom I recommend for gallant and distinguished service in the Field.
Gazette Date: 17/02/1915
Gazette Page: 1663

------------------------------

First Name: W T
Surname: Price
Information: Quartermaster.
Rank: Honorary Lieutenant
Gallantry Awards: Mentioned in Despatches

Gazette Info: Gazette Issue 29200. Mentioned in Despatches. The following despatch has been received by the Secretary of State for War from the Field Marshal Commanding-in-Chief, British Forces in the field.
Gazette Date: 01/06/1915
Gazette Page: 5996

------------------------------

First Name: W T
Surname: Price
Information: Quartermaster.
Rank: Honorary Lieutenant
Gallantry Awards: Mentioned in Despatches

Gazette Info: Gazette No. 29422. Mentioned in Despatches. The following despatch has been received by the Secretary of State for War from the Field Marshall Commanding-in-Chief the British Army in France. I have the honour to bring to notice the name, whom I recommend for gallant and distinguished service in this field.
Gazette Date: 31/12/1915
Gazette Page: 42
Duty Location: France

------------------------------

First Name: Walter Thomas
Initials: W
Surname: Price
Nationality: British
Rank: Quartermaster
Rank (2nd): Honlt
Gallantry Awards: Military Cross

Instituted on 28th December 1914 the Military Cross (M.C.) is the third level military decoration awarded to Officers.

This decoration was awarded to Walter Thomas Price for an act or acts of exemplary gallantry during active operations against the enemy.

The Military Cross (M.C.) is awarded for gallantry during active operations against the enemy.

Walter Thomas Price,as an owner of the Military Cross, is entitled to use the letters M.C. after his name.

Award Details: Distinguished Service
Gazette Info: 586
Gazette Date: 14/01/1916

------------------------------

First Name: Walter Thomas
Surname: Price
Information: Quartermaster.
Rank: Honorary Lieutenant
Gallantry Awards: Military Cross

Instituted on 28th December 1914 the Military Cross (M.C.) is the third level military decoration awarded to Officers.

This decoration was awarded to Walter Thomas Price for an act or acts of exemplary gallantry during active operations against the enemy.

The Military Cross (M.C.) is awarded for gallantry during active operations against the enemy.

Walter Thomas Price,as an owner of the Military Cross, is entitled to use the letters M.C. after his name.

Gazette Info: Gazette Issue 29438. M.C. His Majesty the King has been graciously pleased to approve of the undermentioned Honours and Rewards for distinguished service in the Field, with effect from 1st January, 1916, inclusive, :- Awarded the Military Cross.
Gazette Date: 01/11/1916
Gazette Page: 586

How sure can I be that this brave fellow is my grandad? On Grandad's medals (and medal roll) he is listed as a private. Excuse my ignorance, but was it possible to become an honorary lieutenant and quartermaster, but be awarded medals as a private?

The other reason why I'm not sure that I'm looking at the same man is that the person above is first mentioned in dispatches (and therfore we can assume he was on active service) in Feb 1915. My grandad did not recieve the 1915 star, suggesting that he was not in active service this year?

As far as I am aware, grandad never appended his name with 'M.C.', so I suspect this is a different Walter Thomas Price, but at the very least I'd like to eliminate him from my enquiries!

[jp1885]

This is his medal card by the way.

[SteveE]

<snip>

How sure can I be that this brave fellow is my grandad? On Grandad's medals (and medal roll) he is listed as a private. Excuse my ignorance, but was it possible to become an honorary lieutenant and quartermaster, but be awarded medals as a private?

The other reason why I'm not sure that I'm looking at the same man is that the person above is first mentioned in dispatches (and therfore we can assume he was on active service) in Feb 1915. My grandad did not recieve the 1915 star, suggesting that he was not in active service this year?

As far as I am aware, grandad never appended his name with 'M.C.', so I suspect this is a different Walter Thomas Price, but at the very least I'd like to eliminate him from my enquiries!

JP

You're looking at two different men entirely. If you have your Grandad's medals and the card (post#5) relates to them then all the records you've found on FWR are for a different Walter Thomas Price.

This second W. T. Price went overseas in 1914 with 1st D.C.L.I. as Hon. Lieut. and Quartermaster and later transferred to the Royal Flying Corps.

Regards

Steve

[jp1885]

Thanks very much for taking the time to reply and confirming what I suspected. Ah well, on with the research! (Luckily I do have is medals so I know the medal card is correct)

[CGM]

In 1911 a Walter Thomas PRICE, aged 36, a Commissioned Officer - Army Hon Lieutenant and Quartermaster (born in Cornwall) was living in Gravesend with his wife Beatrice (aged 33). Married for 10 years with no children.

Does this help to separate the two Walter Thomas PRICE?

CGM

[jp1885]

Definitely! The Walter Thomas Price that I'm interested in had children, including my dad!

Quick question, from his medal card, would he have joined the Devonshires first and then transferred to the DCLI, or the other war around? From memory his medal is inscribed with Devonshire regt.

[RaySearching]

As your Grandfather's medals were impressed with the Devonshire Regiment

This will have been the first unit he served with in France, later transferred to

the Duke of Cornwalls Light Infantry

regards Ray

[jp1885]

Ah I see, thanks for clarifying that.

[SteveE]

Usually (not always!) the Medal Index Card is listed in the unit order that they served overseas with, in this instance Devonshires first and D.C.L.I. second.

The medals would be inscribed with the details of the first unit with which the entitlement was earned so if the medals you have record his Devon.R. details then that confirms the card order.

The issuing of the medals would however have been administered by his last unit, in this instance the D.C.L.I. so if you check the Medal Roll it will be a D.C.L.I. Roll.

The reference C/1/101 B10 Page 865 = Page 865 of WO 329/1212 (Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry other ranks: medal rolls C/1/101B7: C/1/101B8: C/1/101B9: C/1/101B10: C/1/101B11. Pages 609-912. British War Medal and Victory Medal).

Regards

Steve

edit: sorry, question already answered as I was typing but at least we agree

[jp1885]

Thanks! I've sent an estimate request to the National Archives for this page - what kind of information can I expect to see?

I think if nothing else I'd like to find out what battalion of the Devonshires and DCLI he was in (to give me a rough idea where he fought) and when he joined up / transferred.

[SteveE]

The amount of detail shown in a Medal Roll varies enormously between units and record offices. If nothing else I'd like to think you'd at least get the battalion numbers for both regiments.

It may be helpful to have a read of the pages on LLT too....http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/campaignmedals.html

Regards

Steve

[jp1885]

Cheers! I'll await a reply from the Nat. Archives...

[jp1885]

A bit of a cheek this, but if anyone is at Kew and has a spare five minutes, I'd like to check if a document I've found on TNA search engine is related to Grandad. It's PIN 26/11736, PRICE W Nature of Disability: G.S.W.

It's a bit of a long shot, so I'd like to check if the gent in question is 'my' Price, W before I press the 'order copy' button.

Many hopeful thanks in advance.

[jp1885]

Hi guys,

Okay, I've got a copy of grandad's medal roll - see above. He's listed as being in the 9th Devonshires, which is something i didn't know, but annoyingly doesn't mention what battalion of the DCLI. Could his service number of 32516 be cross-referenced with a particular battalion?

Also, there is a suffix of 'OJS' (I think) next to his entry - what does this mean?