BEST WE FORGET: POMMY INSULT TO WW1 DIGGERS

[john jerome mcmanus]

G'day all,

An article appeared in the Sydney 'Daily Telegraph' with the above headline.

It reads (written by an Australian journalist in London):

"A PC push by British politicians is threatening to downplay the role of Aussie Diggers in WW1 in favour of developing nations.

The ANZAC whitewash comes despite 62,000 Australians dying in the Great War fighting for the British Empire and another 156,000 being wounded, with no 100 year anniversary events planned by Britain recognising the sacrifice.

The Daily Telegraph has learned that, in a blatant politicising of the anniversary, Whitehall officials have been briefed to push the efforts by so-called "new Commonwealth" nations in a bid to win political and economic favour in multicultural Britain.

The move comes amid a heated social and political row in Britain over immigration numbers, with the issue likely to determine the outcome of elections in Britain next year.

British government source have confirmed internal briefings on WW1 commemorations have not once mentioned Australia or New Zealand.

Instead, staff from departments and cabinet offices have been briefed to concentrate on contributions from other British Empire nations such as Nigeria and dominions in West Africa, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

The "new Commonwealth" is a British term to describe predominantly non-white and developing former colonies and is often used in debates on immigration.

The desire to push the war efforts by soldiers from these countries is seen as more fruitful to promote "community cohesion" and link younger generations of ethnic Britons.

"It's basically to remind Britons World War 1 wasn't just soldiers from here fighting in France and Belgium but involved people from Lagos, Kingston and the Punjab" a government insider said.

"There has been no mention of old Commonwealth allies like Australia or New Zealand but more interest in celebrating the role from new Commonwealth countries. I think it's fair to say Commonwealth ties are being frayed by this one."

The British Department for Culture, Media and Sport, tasked with WW1 anniversary events, confirmed there were no plans to have any specific events recognising Australia's contribution.

"I don't think there is anything specific at this stage for individual countries" a spokeswoman said.

"It is obviously a four-year program so there may well be specific things as we go along but nothing at this stage"

British author and commentator Murray Rowlands said it was a disgrace Australians and New Zealanders were being ignored.

"There is nothing in (PM) David Cameron's program of commemoration that mention these countries," he said.

"The British pretty much lost the war in July 1918. They were in retreat and it was the Australians and New Zealanders who got put into the gap. They were the ones that held up the Germans in places like Hamel."

Australian Veteran Affairs Minister Michael Ronaldson declined to comment but RSL NSW state president Don Rowe accused the British government of trying to rewrite history.

"Some of these nations did make large contributions, particularly India," Mr Rowe said.

"but you can't ignore those who played a major role and that included Australia and New Zealand. The Australians had the highest casualty rate of any nations including Germany and France. Maybe the Brits are annoyed at the cricket."

I know that this article will raise the hackles of some members of the GWF but I would like some opinions.

I am also saddened that the Canadians are not mentioned by anyone.

Regards

Pop

(Sean McManus

[auchonvillerssomme]

Or it could just be information taken out of context and used to stir it.

[redbarchetta]

I wonder how much the proposed Australian and New Zealander commemorations will focus on the British contribution...

I really don't think A/NZ need any British help in promoting their role in the war, they can, and will, do that admirably themselves, I'm sure.

How far will commemorations of WW1 go in India, though? Not far, I imagine, and certainly will not impact upon those now living in the UK. So if the large population in the UK with Indian/Pakistani heritage is to understand their role in WW1 we will need to encompass that in our commemorations here. Not at the exclusion of British, but as a compliment to.

James

[BelgianExile]

The article is here (although all the text is above).

[Dust Jacket Collector]

I wonder how much the proposed Australian and New Zealander commemorations will focus on the British contribution...

I really don't think A/NZ need any British help in promoting their role in the war, they can, and will, do that admirably themselves, I'm sure.

How far will commemorations of WW1 go in India, though? Not far, I imagine, and certainly will not impact upon those now living in the UK. So if the large population in the UK with Indian/Pakistani heritage is to understand their role in WW1 we will need to encompass that in our commemorations here. Not at the exclusion of British, but as a compliment to.

James

The annual commemoration service at the Chatri near Brighton, which remembers the Indian soldiers who died in the local hospital, is always extremely well attended by members of the Indian community. In 2012 in a torrential downpour there must have been some 300 there.

[David_Underdown]

It seems the paper is continuing the type of reporting on the war started by the father of the current owner...

[centurion]

It seems the paper is continuing the type of reporting on the war started by the father of the current owner...

Wingeing is not reserved for Pommes

[madgarry]

Many of us pommys have Ausie and NZ relatives and we dont forget the roles played by those nations in the conflict.

[stevem49]

Apparently other troops than ANZACs fought on Gallipoli, yet you would think not when listening to certain Australian's.

[Guest]

Among all this vitriol and finger-pointing and national insecurity I wonder if anyone will spare a thought for the poor old English soldiers. If memory serves the English were the largest national contingent of the British Empire in the Great War and suffered proportionately. Half of them didn't even volunteer for the privilege.

It must be a thing of great curiosity to this journalist (and those he so freely quotes) why so many Englishmen died in the War given it was won by the ANZACs. I assume he has never stood at the Helles memorial or the Menin Gate. I assume he also doesn't include the large minority of British born ANZACs in the list of those who will be insulted.

We should brace ourselves for four years' worth of this nonsense...

MG

[6th Shropshires]

Here go again the f*****g papers stirring it again.

Well p****d off with papers & politicians and not just those in UK.

Annette

[Derek Black]

Apparently other troops than ANZACs fought on Gallipoli, yet you would think not when listening to certain Australian's.

Indeed, and how many of those ANZAC's were born and bred in the UK before emigrating?...

[keithmroberts]

Apparently other troops than ANZACs fought on Gallipoli, yet you would think not when listening to certain Australian's.

Indeed so. I had a lengthy conversation with a middle aged Aussie in a museum during my recent Malta trip, and although an educated man with a degree he did not actually know that a single French soldier served at Gallipoli, or that his country's casualties were so much less than those of the British or French troops. It surely belittles all those who served to take a one nation view.

I do think that Keith Murdoch in particular has much to answer for.

Keith

Edit: to avoid confusion can I clarify that the Museum that I referred to was more of a historic building with a handful of exhibits, than a fully fledged museum.

[Bernard_Lewis]

Annette!!!!!!!!!!

Sitting on the fence again... ;0)

Bernard

[stevem49]

I actually have an English chap in the 9th Bn, killed in action whilst his brother fought as an ANZAC, after leaving England pre-war. No doubt many families had such sons.

It would be wonderful if everyone spent the next four years remembering those who died from whatever nation and commemorated them.

Sadly our world is not like that and the politico's and media will make hay on the back of a terrible war in which every country lost sons and daughters.

'Every human being should realise that the future of humanity is dependent on there present actions and thinking - Dalai Lama'

[Stoppage Drill]

although an educated man with a degree

The correlation shouldn't be assumed these days.

[Sue Light]

It would be wonderful if everyone spent the next four years remembering those who died from whatever nation and commemorated them.

And even more wonderful if it could be spent remembering everyone who served, many not escaping unscathed. Although the dead are the inevitable casualties of war, that war could not be brought to an end, or won, without the living.

Sue

[6th Shropshires]

Annette!!!!!!!!!!

Sitting on the fence again... ;0)

Bernard

I know I can't help it

[keithmroberts]

It looks like being a very long five years. I just hope I can stick it out.

Keith

[hazelclark]

I suspect there will be a lot more happening to make us all uncomfortable. However,as there isn't a great deal the average person can do about it, we can just try to educate those within our own sphere of influence.

Incidentally, several members of my own family volunteered to serve in both wars as "colonials" although almost all were born in Scotland. I also agree with Sue that it was not just the KIA people who should be remembered. My family was devastated by my grandfather's injuries.

Hazel

[Garron]

Sadly my plan to hide in a bunker/underground somewhere for the next 4 years and reappear Nov 12 2018 isn't viable, such a shame.
Its January 2014 and I'm sick of this ****ing contest of ideas already, we are supposed to be remembering the lost generation and their sacrifice, not bickering like school children, on a personal note factor in militaria prices are already way higher than normal, its going to be a very very long 4 years.

[Stoppage Drill]

Here go again the f*****g papers stirring it again.

Well p****d off with papers & politicians and not just those in UK.

Annette

Get thee to a nunnery.

[6th Shropshires]

Get thee to a nunnery.

I tried that once but it did not work out, not sure why ?

[centurion]

Sadly my plan to hide in a bunker/underground somewhere for the next 4 years and reappear Nov 12 2018 isn't viable, such a shame.

Its January 2014 and I'm sick of this ****ing contest of ideas already, we are supposed to be remembering the lost generation and their sacrifice, not bickering like school children, on a personal note factor in militaria prices are already way higher than normal, its going to be a very very long 4 years.

The "lost generation" was a French concept and referred to the survivors rather than the dead. It referred to those who had served and returned disillusioned, lacking respect for authority, ambition, patriotism etc etc First recorded as having been used by a M.Pernollet a hotel and garage proprietor in Belley as “une génération perdue” to describe the mechanics he employed when apologising to the American author Gertrude Stein for the poor servicing of her car. She borrowed the phrase and Earnest Hemingway soon mis appropriated it from her.

[mmar]

“British author and commentator Murray Rowlands said it was a disgrace Australians and New Zealanders were being ignored. "There is nothing in (PM) David Cameron's program of commemoration that mention these countries," he said. "The British pretty much lost the war in July 1918. They were in retreat and it was the Australians and New Zealanders who got put into the gap. They were the ones that held up the Germans in places like Hamel."

I can’t believe a so called historian has such an ignorant and inaccurate view. The British were not ’in retreat’ in July, far from it, it was largely British troops who stopped the German offensives in March and April