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Remembered Today:

Frank Docherty or Dockerty, Private or L/Cpl 25/923 25th Tyneside Iris


Fattyowls

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On August 7, 1916 The Liverpool Echo ran the following article in it's sports section.

"Many sportsmen in various parts of the country but particularly in Liverpool will learn with regrets that Jack Borthwick, the former Everton centre-half has been seriously wounded in the head. He lies in a French hospital and the latest report is that he is progressing favourably. Jack was very popular both in the city and in Millwall, to which team he went from Everton. Everybody will wish him a speedy recovery.

Another former Evertonian, but not so well known as Jack is reported missing. Many will recall Frank Docherty, the outside right, who was transferred from Wellington Athletic to the Goodison Park a few seasons ago. He also played for Fulham. His brother Sergeant Docherty, well known in Northern boxing circles was killed some months ago.

Major Frank C. Buckley (Footballers Battalion) the international half-back has also been severely wounded. He was shot through the shoulder and is now in Bournbrook Hospital."

I know quite a lot about Jack Borthwick who survived his head wound at Delville Wood to become the landlord of the Winslow Public House opposite Everton's Goodison Park and Frank Buckley, who went on to manage Wolves and Leeds Utd. However I have only the sketchiest information on Frank Docherty and was hoping the forum experts may be able to help me fill in the gaps.

Docherty was originally in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders No. S/13047 but transferred to the 2nd Battalion Black Watch, as Private No. S/13137. He died in what is now Iraq on 28th June 1916 and is buried in Amara Cemetery according to the CWGC. From searching the forum I believe he would have sailed on the H.T Royal George for Mesopotamia in late 1915, arriving on New Years Eve. The 2nd Black Watch were heavily involved in the Battle of Shaikh sa'ad on January 7th ,1916. Their initial strength was 29 Officers and 890 other ranks and by the end of the day only 6 unwounded Officers and about 120 other ranks were left. On June 22nd the battalion was involved in an attack on Hanna. I am assuming that the Hanna action may have been where he was killed.

I have been able to find no record of his earlier life although a family tree on Ancestry does give his birth date as 7th August 1898 in Glasgow. However this would make him 17 at the time of his death and seems inconsistent with him having a pre-war football career. I've found a Wellington Athletic FC but they were based in Forest Green in East London. I think that the Ancestry records suggest an enlistment date of 21st August 1915; unfortunately my Ancestry subscription has run out and I've spent all of my pocket money on sweets and comics so I am struggling to re-check my facts. Perhaps I would have better luck if I'd referred to his regiment as the Black Wallet on Ancestry.

Any assistance would be very gratefully received.

Pete.

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Pete,

Are you convinced your attribution of Frank Docherty to the Black Watch is correct? You say his age does not fit.

The Liverpool Echo mentions the Frank Docherty of interest had a brother "Sergeant Docherty" who "was killed some months ago".

This may be interesting. It may also be wrong! I have not checked it out any further yet.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=12395687

You will see there is an interchange of the surnames Dockerty and Docherty

The William Docherty referred to was Sjt. William Docherty 13672 12th Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers kia 12.1.1916 buried Cite Bonjean Mil. Cem., Armentieres. No next of kin details. S.D.G.W. (born Jarrow on Tyne enlisted Wallsend on Tyne)

In the 1911 census there is a 'Francis' Dockerty and a William Dockerty in the same family living at 57, Palmer Terrace, Willington Quay-on-Tyne.

The names and chronology seems to fit. But is it? I will try to look at it later unless another forum member picks it up, or knows the answer.

Harry

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The Newcastle Journal, Monday August 7 1916

MISSING

Mrs. Docherty, of 22, Palmer's Terrace, Willington Quay, has received official intimation that her son Lance-Corporal Frank Docherty, has been missing since July 1. Lance Corporal Docherty was a well-known footballer, and he had been connected with the Jarrow, Willington Athletic, Everton, and Fulham clubs. A brother Sergt. Wm. Docherty, was killed in January last.

The Wellington Athletic mentioned in the Liverpool Echo report seems to have been a typo and should have been Willington.

This confirms the Frank Docherty in my post above is your man.

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Pete,

Have to highlight Major Frank Buckley in your opener here. When I were a kid......... !

He had a long career in football management,from Norwich in 1919 (no,I weren't a kid then ) through to the end of his career in 1955 at Walsall,but in the meantime an illustrious time at Wolves and several other clubs .

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The Newcastle Journal, Monday August 7 1916

MISSING

Mrs. Docherty, of 22, Palmer's Terrace, Willington Quay, has received official intimation that her son Lance-Corporal Frank Docherty, has been missing since July 1. Lance Corporal Docherty was a well-known footballer, and he had been connected with the Jarrow, Willington Athletic, Everton, and Fulham clubs. A brother Sergt. Wm. Docherty, was killed in January last.

The Wellington Athletic mentioned in the Liverpool Echo report seems to have been a typo and should have been Willington.

This confirms the Frank Docherty in my post above is your man.

Harry

This is just what I was hoping for; thank you for a fine piece of forensic research. Frank Docherty's name was given to me by my friend Billy Smith of the Everton Heritage Society (of which I'm the unofficial and very much self appointed millitary wing). Billy's forte is sporting research (if for any reason you need to know the scorers in the Accrington v Everton fixture from 1892-3 he's your man) and on the face of it the identification of Docherty as having died in Mesopotamia seemed incontrovertible. However as you guessed something didn't quite stack up for me which is why I posted the request; I was hoping for a dispassionate view with access to other sources and that's exactly what you've given me and in double quick time.

We are meeting up on Sunday to discuss how we can present the information as part of the club's commemoration of the centenary; I'm hoping that we can use the research for local schools and family history groups. In some ways I'm disappointed that "our" Frank Docherty is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial rather than in far off Iraq as I wanted to use the story of the 2nd Black Watch to illustrate a forgotten theatre of the war. However it will make visiting a whole lot easier; I already have one name on the Memorial; a subaltern of the Cameronians who was killed in Mash Valley on the afternoon of the 1st July so there is a certain symmetry in having Frank to commemorate on the other side of La Boiselle in Sausage Valley.

Thanks again,

Pete.

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Pete,

Have to highlight Major Frank Buckley in your opener here. When I were a kid......... !

He had a long career in football management,from Norwich in 1919 (no,I weren't a kid then ) through to the end of his career in 1955 at Walsall,but in the meantime an illustrious time at Wolves and several other clubs .

Absolutely no argument from me; the Major is a really interesting man for all sorts of reasons. I remember my old Dad muttering darkly about him in his days as Wolves manager; there was something about monkey gland injections and watering the pitch before a cup tie at the Molineux. Major Buckley also features in the battalion history of the 17th Middlesex; "When the Whistle Blows" by Andrew Riddoch and John Kemp.

Pete.

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You will see there is an interchange of the surnames Dockerty and Docherty

The William Docherty referred to was Sjt. William Docherty 13672 12th Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers kia 12.1.1916 buried Cite Bonjean Mil. Cem., Armentieres. No next of kin details. S.D.G.W. (born Jarrow on Tyne enlisted Wallsend on Tyne)

In the 1911 census there is a 'Francis' Dockerty and a William Dockerty in the same family living at 57, Palmer Terrace, Willington Quay-on-Tyne.

Yes correct

William Docherty Serjeant 13672

12th Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers

Who died on 12th January 1916

Son of Ellen Docherty and the late Francis Docherty

Born Jarrow 1882 (birth registered as Dockerty)

Enlisted Wallsend

Grave/Memorial Reference. Cite Bonjean Military Cemetery Armentieres. IX. D. 93

Docherty at CWGC (13672)

Docherty on his Medal Index Card (13672)

Frank Docherty Private 25/923

25th Battalion (Tyneside Irish) Northumberland Fusiliers

Who died on 1st July 1916

Son of Ellen Docherty and the late Francis Docherty

Born Jarrow 1888 (birth registered as Docherty)

Enlisted Newcastle

Grave/Memorial Reference. Thiepval Memorial. Pier and Face 10 B 11 B and 12 B

Dockerty at CWGC (25/293)

Docherty on his Medal Index Card (25/923)

1911 Census

57 Palmer Terrace, Willington Quay

(The name is classified as Dockerty but it reads Docherty to me?)

Ellena Docherty widow aged 50 born Manchester.

(crossed out married 30yrs, children born 7, children still living 7)

William Docherty son age 29 Labourer in Iron Shipyard born Jarrow

Joseph Docherty son age 26 married (crossed out married 2 years?) Labourer in Iron Shipyard born Jarrow

Francis Docherty son age 23 Labourer in Iron Shipyard born Jarrow

Ellen Docherty daughter age 21 born Jarrow

Mary Docherty daughter age 18 born Jarrow

Thomas Docherty son age 16 Labourer Rivet Heater in Iron Shipyard born Jarrow

Patrick Docherty son age 14 Labourer Rivet Catcher in Iron Shipyard born Jarrow

Francis Dougherty married Alena Mahoney in Jarrow 1881

From LDS:

Name: Gulielmus Dockerty
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 23 Apr 1882
Christening Place: Jarrow, Durham, England
Birth Date: 06 Apr 1882
Father's Name: Franusci Dockerty
Mother's Name: Ellena Mahoney Dockerty
Name: Josephus Dogherty
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 28 Jun 1885
Christening Place: St. Bede's, Jarrow, Durham, England
Birth Date: 13 Jun 1885
Mother's Name: Helena Mahoney
Name: Franciscus Doherty
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 29 Jan 1888
Christening Place: St. Bede's, Jarrow, Durham, England
Birth Date: 17 Jan 1888
Father's Name: Francisci Doherty
Mother's Name: Helena Mahoney Doherty
Name: Helena Doherty
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 16 Feb 1890
Christening Place: St. Bede's, Jarrow, Durham, England
Birth Date: 10 Feb 1890
Father's Name: Francisci Doherty
Mother's Name: Helena Mahony Doherty
Name: Maria Joanna Doherty
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 01 Mar 1892
Christening Place: St. Bede's, Jarrow, Durham, England
Birth Date: 12 Feb 1892
Father's Name: Francisci Doherty
Mother's Name: Helenora Mahony
Name: Thomas Doherty
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 21 Nov 1894
Christening Place: St. Bede, Jarrow, Durham, England
Birth Date: 09 Nov 1894
Father's Name: Francisci Doherty
Mother's Name: Helena Mahony
Name: Patricius Docherty
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 03 Feb 1897
Christening Place: St. Bede, Jarrow, Durham, England
Birth Date: 05 Jan 1897
Father's Name: Francisci Docherty
Mother's Name: Helena Marney Docherty
See what the Latin did to the Irish names
Everyone blames the Irish or the enumerators for the names constantly worded differently
It was the different priests to blame with their different interpretation of the Irish name to Latin
The above example proves the point
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Yes correct

Francis Dougherty married Alena Mahoney in Jarrow 1881?

Curlew

Thanks for the extra detail; that's really helpful on top of Harry's information. Interesting to see that we are up to three different spellings of the surname. Do you have a particular interest or are you just a dab hand on Ancestry? I wish I was; I never really got the hang of it although from threads like the one about the worst typos (Black Watch/Blackwallet is my favourite) and other posts about the difficulty finding stuff I think I am not alone.

Thanks again,

Pete.

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Absolutely no argument from me; the Major is a really interesting man for all sorts of reasons. I remember my old Dad muttering darkly about him in his days as Wolves manager; there was something about monkey gland injections and watering the pitch before a cup tie at the Molineux. Major Buckley also features in the battalion history of the 17th Middlesex; "When the Whistle Blows" by Andrew Riddoch and John Kemp.

Pete.

Pete

The 1939 Cup Final was known as the 'Monkey Gland final' because both Wolves and Portsmouth were accused of using injections to improve players performance. Obviously Portsmouth's dealer was better as in, arguably, the biggest shock in Cup Final history they won 4 - 1. The only other thing I know about Buckley was that his right to the rank was dubious but that everyone, including bizarrely his wife, called him 'Major'

David

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Interesting to see that we are up to three different spellings of the surname. Do you have a particular interest or are you just a dab hand on Ancestry? I wish I was; I never really got the hang of it although from threads like the one about the worst typos (Black Watch/Blackwallet is my favourite) and other posts about the difficulty finding stuff I think I am not alone.

No link to the family

I was just looking for a couple of Northumberland Fusiliers from Jarrow

And in passing had a bit info on the two brothers and thought I might as well add it

Harry Brook made the link (he has tripled what info I had)

Anyway it seems the lads father was consistent (he must of had his name tattooed on his arm)

He married as Francis Dougherty (probably pronounced Doubty) and he died as Francis Dougherty in 1897 aged 35 (registered Newcastle) probably living Wallsend (he must of been 19 when he married)

But the rest of the family (who were left) getting used to having their name pronounced as Docherty (or even Dockerty) over the years registered their mother at Northumberland South (Wallsend could have came under Northumberland South then?) when she died Helena Docherty aged 70 in 1938 (mind 7 years was knocked off her age) else she would have been 13 when she married?

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No link to the family

Curlew

Thanks again for all your efforts; it's certainly going to help anyone who is trying to research soldiers called Docherty/Dockerty/Daugherty etc etc. It's interesting about the latinisation of the surname. I have traced my paternal line to a George Jones who married Elizabeth Tombs on 23rd October 1743 in Cuxham in Oxfordshire. There is no trace of a George Jones being born in any of the surrounding parishes and I'm wondering if his surname might have been recorded in Latin. Off topic but interesting (at least to me).

Pete.

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Pete

The 1939 Cup Final was known as the 'Monkey Gland final' because both Wolves and Portsmouth were accused of using injections to improve players performance. Obviously Portsmouth's dealer was better as in, arguably, the biggest shock in Cup Final history they won 4 - 1. The only other thing I know about Buckley was that his right to the rank was dubious but that everyone, including bizarrely his wife, called him 'Major'

David

Just to bring the discussion back to WW1 links; Wolves captain was Stan Cullis who would go on to be the manager of the great Wolves teams of the 50's. Cullis was born in Ellesmere Port and I think went to the same school as Joe Mercer of Everton who was his half back partner (along with Everton's Cliff Britton) for England. Mercer's father Joe senior played for Forest and Tranmere either side of WW1 and had served with Major Buckley in the 17th Middlesex. Mercer senior was apparently badly gassed and never fully recovered; and died relatively young if memory serves. Wolves beat Everton 2-0 in the quarter final of the FA Cup that year which I think may have been the origin of my father's pitch watering conspiracy theory.

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Update

After reading HarryBrooks informative information I contacted find a grave and posted the info (great stuff off HarryBrooks)

And they have changed it

I did not mention the father as Dougherty as it would of taken to long to explain and confuse the matter

The name cannot be changed on find a grave because Frank Docherty is on the Thiepval Memorial as Frank Dockerty (a big job for someone else maybe to sort out?)

Follow the links

Frank Docherty

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=12395687

William Docherty

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Update

After reading HarryBrooks informative information I contacted find a grave and posted the info (great stuff off HarryBrooks)

And they have changed it

I did not mention the father as Dougherty as it would of taken to long to explain and confuse the matter

The name cannot be changed on find a grave because Frank Docherty is on the Thiepval Memorial as Frank Dockerty (a big job for someone else maybe to sort out?)

Curlew

This is above and beyond the call of duty; great work. I'm sure if any of the Docherty brothers' family look for information in the next few years they will be thrilled to find the detail that you and Harry have posted.

I now have three Everton players on the Thiepval Memorial; I forgot to mention L Cpl. Leigh Roose MM in my earlier post (it's my age). By cooincidence he is also shown with a differently spelled name, in this case Rouse. He is a hugely interesting man and I posted a small flavour in the Remembering Them section here. As he is the subject of a book I believe there have been representations by the family to have the name changed but I think this might have to wait until the whole panel on which he is named is replaced.

Pete.

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  • 1 year later...
Guest Calgaich

Francis Docherty number s13137 was indead killed in 1916 with the black watch his two older brothers james and michael were in the hli and were both killed in france. These men are my grand uncles. if you have any questions that i can help with pls ask.

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  • 5 years later...

Oh my, I think I may have struck gold here 🤞. I have been trying to trace my family roots. My nan was a dockerty (spelt that way).... Her father was Francis dockerty 1886 (who's been a nightmare to find.) he was married to Ethel née Johnson .his father was also called Francis dockerty who married ellena.... I really hope this is the right link 🔗 any help or information would really be appreciated very much. 

Kind regards Jane 😊x

Screenshot_20200523-140053.png

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Hi Janey

 

Welcome to the forum and welcome also to the informal group trying to research people with names that get spelt lots of different ways (Dockerty/Docherty/Dougherty/Doherty sub group). What is is that you want to know about 'your' Francis Dockerty? If we can establish that I am sure that the forum will be able to help, the expertise is amazing.

 

This is 'my' Frank Docherty, born by the Tyne in 1888 and killed on 1st July 1916 in front of La Boisselle on the Somme serving with the Tyneside Irish, specifically the 25th Battalion of the Northumberland Fusiliers. He's remembered on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing. The photo is courtesy of Fulham FC.

 

Pete.

DohertyF.jpg.47d22255443b4fb4a5b4dbaad0263e93.jpg1782470723_FrankDocherty(asDockerty)ThiepvalMemorial.JPG.40406c1c53d8e21546084706602990d2.JPG

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Thank you so much for getting back to me Pete, really appreciate it. 

The Francis dockerty am looking for definitely married Ethel Johnson who was from widnes in Cheshire. The only two things I could find linking Francis was a army form saying he was born the 8th of Nov 1886.but place of birth was saying St bedes.(posted above)... And also him and Ethel living at a address in widnes in 1939....but after that I can't find newt .... Now story's I heard from family was about Francis been born in Ireland and having links to boxing.. With I'd read in the comments....with would be Francis dad. Sadly my nan who was Kathleen dockerty pasted away when I was two and my dad doesn't remember much. X

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Janey

 

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you; I'd have a look at the Long Long Trail tab at the top of the page. If you have a read of the section on Researching a Soldier it will give you at least a starting point for your research into Frank. As a Royal Engineer regular by the looks of things with at least some documentation like the attestation there may be lots you can work out. The guidance is written by Chris, who started the forum in the first place, and is where I usually start. He has forgotten more about WW1 than I will ever know and has researched hundreds if not thousands of men.

 

What I would then do is start a thread giving Frank's name, rank, number and formation and the experts on here will I'm sure be able to help you with any questions, the amount of knowledge on here is remarkable.

 

Pete.

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