RNR, RNVR, RFR EXPLANATIONS PLEASE

[RM1966]

Dear forummembers,

Can someone please explain the difference between the RNR, RNVR and the RFR ?

Kind regards,

Ronald

[John(txic)]

Until someone better comes along...

RNVR - Volunteer Reserve; private gentlemen with a background involving the sea (but usually not as their profession) e.g. yachtsmen etc. In WW2 a large proportion of the Fleet Air ARM were RNVR.

RNR - Reserve; merchant skippers etc.

Easily discernible in photographs during WW2 due to the style of the rank insignia on their cuffs: RN - Straight; RNVR - Diagonal; RNR - loops.

[centurion]

Just think of the Army Reserve and the Territorials and then move them off shore so they become RNR and RNVR respectively - not exact but good enough for government work

[Anneca]

In 1859 a new pool of volunteer seamen from the fishing fleet and Merchant Service undertook annual training in gunnery with the Navy and were willing to be called for service in the fleet in time of war. This was the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve, known as the RNVR. These volunteers were ratings but in 1861 the RNVR was extended to officers.

The ‘Volunteer’ was eventually dropped and the Reserve became known as the RNR and formed under the Naval Forces Act of 1903.

In the Great War over 70,000 reservists played a part both in the Royal Navy and the Royal Naval Air Service.

In the late 1930s it was realised the Royal Navy would be unable to meet the needs of the approaching WW2, and the Royal Naval Volunteer Supplementary Reserve (RNVSR) was formed and mainly recruited amateur yachtsmen who were given specialist training to bring them up to speed. The RNVSR was dropped after World War II.

Sorry but I have no idea what RFR refers to.

Anne

[RM1966]

Thank you for your replies.

Just found this on the internet:

Royal Fleet Reserve:

Composed of men who had served full time with the Royal Navy or Royal Marines. Enlistment rules changed over time but generally a man joined the Royal Navy for a specific number of years followed by a number of years in the Royal Fleet Reserve During his time in the RFR he carried on with his civilian occupation unless he was required by the Navy, such as in wartime.

Ronald

[horatio2]

RNR - Officers (from 1862) and men (from 1859) of the professional mercantile and fishing fleets who did regular training with the Fleet and were available for recall to reinforce the Fleet in times of emergency. The fishery component was hugely increased before and during WW1 with the establishemt of the RNR Trawler Section which largely manned the boats of the Auxiliary Patrol employed on minesweping and antisubmarine duties.

RNVR - (From 1903) officers and men from other walks of life with interest and/or skills in naval/ maritime matters or specialist (eg engineering, aviation) skills . They generally trained with their local RNVR Divisions around UK and were available for recall to reinforce the Fleet in times of emergency. Most officers entered for temporary (duration of the war) commissions in WW1 were entered in the RNVR. Many RNVR officers and men served in the Royal Naval Division.

RFR - as described at Post #5. Men of the RN, RMLI and RMA who had served at least five years might be eligible to join the RFR on discharge. Two main sections: RFR/A = men who had served to pension; RFR/B = men who had not served to pension. The RFR was not open to officers. RFR men did regular annual training with the Fleet and were liable to recall in times of emergency.

[sadsac]

From a `Famous' WW11 Naval Officer in RNVR (Wavy-Navy) - difference between `straight' (RN) and `wavy-navy' (RNVR) - the RN look after the Navy in peace-time - the RNVR do the fighting in War !!!!!!!

Sadsac

[centurion]

A distant relative served in the RNVR in WW2 (I believe in rocket firing landing craft on D day) and ended up with impaired hearing. He was an architect by profession, was brought up some 40 miles from the sea and spent all his civilian existence 40 miles inland, never went yachting or sailing preferring golf about which he was fanatic, So on that evidence it's probably fair to say that not all RNVR officers had a maritime connection.

[Bart150]

The account of the RFR so far is slightly incomplete. There were two cases:

1 A man who volunteered for the Royal Navy normally served for 12 years; after that he could sign on for a further engagement. When he eventually left the service, whether after 12 years or longer, he could – but only if he so chose – become a reservist in the Royal Fleet Reserve (RFR).

2 The RFR also contained ‘Special Service’ (aka ‘Short Service’) men. They had served in the Navy for only five years, but after that they had to belong to the RFR; that was a condition of the contract they originally signed.

[horatio2]

A man could join the RFR only if the RN wished to have him, not just "if he so chose" . It was not an automatic entitlement and, for example, men of poor character were often rejected for RFR service even if they had completed a full engagement.

In contrast, men who purchased their early discharge often went on to RFR service. Special Service ratings were required by the terms of their engagement to give seven years RFR service in normal circumstances but they were equally subject to rejection.

[RM1966]

Dear members,

Thank you very much !

Ronald

[wollyanna]

I found this very interesting as i have found my grandfathers details (partly) and that states R.F.R but also includes Po . after it Any ideas. My grandfather died in the gulf and was apparently a POW but have yet to discover details His Ship was HMS Alert . He died 15/07/1916 and was reburied in Baghdad (North Gate )War cemetery but obviously not sure what has happened since theGulf War. Any comments really appreciated. Thank you .Valerie

[John(txic)]

What's his name, Valerie?

[horatio2]

The latest CWGC information is here - http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/57303/BAGHDAD (NORTH GATE) WAR CEMETERY

PO after his RFR number indicates that his Port Division was Portsmouth.

[MaureenE]

If he was a POW, he was possibly a prisoner in Turkey. If he was reburied at Baghdad, there should be information on one of the documents attached to his record on the CWGC website which indicates where he was originally buried.

 

If he  died in Turkey, the FIBIS Fibiwki page  Prisoners of the Turks (First World War) has information.

http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Prisoners_of_the_Turks_(First_World_War)

 

Cheers

Maureen

[seaJane]

For HMS ALERT, three of the National Archives' four records at this link refer to her service in Mesopotamia:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Alert+Baghdad+ADM

 

Unfortunately none of them is downloadable, so if you wanted to see them without ordering copies, you would either have to go to Kew yourself or ask someone to go for you.

 

sJ

[wallace2]

Wollyanna,  The "Po" refers to Portsmouth.  Royal Navy Ratings were assigned to a home port when they joined. and this was added after their Sevice Number  As far as I know there were three; Portsmouth, "Ply" for Plymouth and "Ch" for Chatham.  I am sure that others will be able to add more. Standing by for incoming!

[horatio2]

Portsmouth, Chatham and Plymouth were the three RMLI Grand Divisions. The RN Port Divisions were Portsmouth, Chatham and Devonport.

[wallace2]

Horatio 2,Thank you for clarifying Plymouth/Devonport.  Poor recollection on my part!  Will check more on next post.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 24 August , 2016 by wallace2