7 Kings Own Scottish Borderers

[2li]

Hi

Can any member help with an interest with the King's Own Scottish Borderers especially the 7th battalion on the dates of 13-14-15 March 1916

I would like to know if any one can help with a few pages of regimental history which might tell me what was going on in this area of France inwhich the 7th KOSB were serving and what went on on these days

any help much appriciated

PHIL

[Old Owl]

Hi Phil,

According to the history of the 7th/8th Bn KOSB there was very little going on on the dates you mention:

"So trench warfare continued day after day, week after week, until the 27th March, when the 15th Division moved back into Corps Reserve. The 7th and 8th Battalions were billeted in the village of Raimbert.

Raimbert is a mining village on a high plateau, and is very healthy. There is no doubt that the men liked it much better than Burbure, and thoroughly enjoyed their month's rest. The surounding country was magnificent, and the march to Enquin-les-Mines, where we enjoyed three days' outing on Corps manoeuvres, was a pleasant change from ordinary routine work.

On re-entering the line, on 25th April, we found that as a result of mine warfare it was greatly altered. The enemy's snipers were keenly on the watch, and, unfortunately Private Kesson, who was too careless of his own safety, was shot through the head."

It is of course possible that the three days manoeuvres mentioned above, were the 13/14/15th March?

Hope this helps?

Robert

[2li]

Thank you Robert very much for your kind help my main reason was to ask for help is that I am very interested in a soldiers from, the 6 KOSB who was sent to the 7 KOSB after being charged

The following information is taken from the medal index .

Archibald McCall, 7596, 7^th Battalions, King’s Own Scottish Borderers, kia 14 March 1916 aged 40.

(Charged without Authority for holding illegal correspondence with the enemy)

Can you help further with this and was it the normal practice to send men who were charged to other regiments, plus he seemed to be the only man who was killed on the 14 March any help much appriciated.

PHIL

[Old Owl]

Hi Phil,

I'm afraid that I can't help with this, but I would suggest that you start a new topic with a heading more relevant to the information you seek--I'm sure that there has to be a story there somewhere!!

If you look on Ancestry there are some service papers to a KOSB man who was born in 1876, enlisted 1894 and was discharged in 1907--could he be the same man? He is shown as born Lochmaben, Dumfries. The entry in SDGW for the A.M. killed in 1916 is shown as having been born in Lochmaben, Dumfries and lived Shrewsbury.

I think that they are one and the same man? Have you checked the local Shrewsbury newspapers for an obituary?

Good luck,

Robert

[2li]

Robert

thanks for reply yes I have looked through papers but nothing found not even at his old town of Lochmaben I think the only connection to Shrewsbury is his wife Nelly who returned home after his death and when they were asking for names to the war memorial she gave Archibalds, he is also commemorated on the Shrewsbury memorial as a SGT. but we know he was a Private on his death, the papers for his pre war do tell me a lot and know doupt is the same man, I was hoping some one might be able to help with the goings on on his death, but you have pointed this out already which I am gratful

seems a sad storey regarding his charge and posting out must have been a real blow to him. I have found that Archibald and Nelly had a son born in India in 1907, and they called him Adolphus McCall, regards to his charge did Archibald have some connections with Germany prior to the war and did he even have friends?

cheers Robert

[PPCLI]

Hi Phil,

I don't have any more details on his offence or death but the notation on his BWM-Vic medal roll suggests that he was demoted while with the 6th Bn and then posted to the 7th (listed as Private with both Bns). His 6th Bn 1915 Star roll entry states Sergeant. I also have a Dumfries newspaper photo of him which states Sgt-Major, killed in action. It is likely that there will be a report of his death in the newspaper but I don't have a copy (and don't live locally anymore to get one). The photo shows him wearing what looks like a KSLI cap badge, so not sure where this fits into his service history. His KOSB number fits with enlistment into the 3rd Special Reserve Bn KOSB as a man with previous army experience, probably dating around very end of August 1914.

Send me a PM with contact details and I will send you copies of photo and medal rolls.

Stuart

[johnboy]

If I have read the ancestry files correctly, and not mixed up 2 sets of service records it seems he could have enlisted when 18yrs in 1894 and was discharged 26/4/09;

Then re enlisted at age 32 yrs 21 /7/15.

[2li]

thats correct Johnboy

I do have his pre war papers and it does give a few ints also I have his will form which he made the day he left

cheers PHIL

[2li]

Hi Phil,

I don't have any more details on his offence or death but the notation on his BWM-Vic medal roll suggests that he was demoted while with the 6th Bn and then posted to the 7th (listed as Private with both Bns). His 6th Bn 1915 Star roll entry states Sergeant. I also have a Dumfries newspaper photo of him which states Sgt-Major, killed in action. It is likely that there will be a report of his death in the newspaper but I don't have a copy (and don't live locally anymore to get one). The photo shows him wearing what looks like a KSLI cap badge, so not sure where this fits into his service history. His KOSB number fits with enlistment into the 3rd Special Reserve Bn KOSB as a man with previous army experience, probably dating around very end of August 1914.

Send me a PM with contact details and I will send you copies of photo and medal rolls.

Stuart

hi Stuart

did you get my e-mail regards to the bits and pieces you have regarding Archibald McCall

cheers PHIL

[PPCLI]

Hi Phil,

Yes, but have been a bit busy. I have sent them across to you just now.

Cheers,

Stuart

[Glengarry1950]

Hi Phil,

I have been following this with interest, I was KOSB for 25 years and have gone through the copy I have of KOSB in the Great War. In March 1916 the 7th Borderers were in the Loos sector in Hill 70 sector Col Seller, CO was more concerned about trench foot at this time as the weather was the usual wintery-spring type with considerable amount of snow and the men had much to do to try and keep dry. He then notes on the 19th March 1916 the Corps Commander was not best pleased by the men's turnout at the Presbyterian parade at Noeux, but the CO noted it was more in sorrow than in anger. Bright buttons, unstained garments are hard to find with no equipment to clean such, (by order), and no change of raiment, but just what they stand up in when they man the fire trench. I would have thought and expected a Borderer KIA would have been mentioned but as far as I can make out they were out of the line. The only McCall mentioned is a 2nd Lt A. McCall 4th KOSB attaché 7/8 KOSB KIA posthumously awarded the MC 23 August 1917. Although this is a good account of the History of the KOSB in the Great War I note it mainly only mentions the Officers KIA or Wounded by name and not the men unless it was a specific incident or action of valour. I know for a fact that the Regimental HQ are of no help, (better than useless), might I suggest a look at the History of 15 Division or the KOSB War Diaries for the specific date as the History states Col Seller kept a diligent record. Also the Scottish National War Memorial and Records Edinburgh Castle may have something.

I hope this is of some help

Regards

Hiram

[2li]

Hiram

cheers very much for your kind help

This chap is indeed a mistry to me I have found out all regards to him being commemorated on my memorial at Shrewsbury he was married to a local girl and she returned home to Shrewsbury after Archibalds death and lived with her brother, and I am sure after the war she gave his name to the war memorial commitee and thats how his name is commemorated (rightly so), regards to his medal card I did try the KOSB regimantle museum but they have no record on this, as you say no mention of his death in the war dirary, he is the only man to have died that day on 14 March 1916, and he does have a grave so what ever happened to him they managed to see he got a good burial, also of interest he started out as a SGT. then when he was charged busted to PTE. on the war memorial he is commemorated as a SGT. and in a photograph I have of him he is mentioned as a CSM. I dont know if I will ever find the truth regards to his death but the most important thing is he is rightly commemorated in France and here at Shrewsbury.

all the best PHIL

[Glengarry1950]

Phil

I have dugout some other books I have. This one "For King and Country and the Scottish Borderers" is a paper back booklet the story of the 1/4 (Border) Battalion The Kings Own Scottish Borderers on the Gallipoli Peninsula, 1915, the booklet contain a complete list of all Ranks who served with the Regiment and became casualties along with the Town they came from both sides of the Border. The point I am making is there is accurate lists out there and on the back of the booklet Sources page is a reference to, Soldiers Died in the Great War 1914-1919, ( not an error) Part 30 The Kings Own Scottish Borderers, (HMSO 1921). Therefore, I am wondering if this list is still available as a reference?

Cheers Hiram

[2li]

cheers Hiram

good thinking where would you say best place to look for this ref book

all the best PHIL

[Glengarry1950]

Hi Paul,

I don't really know off hand because I have not tried, but HMSO must have subsection try on line first and see what pops up. I see on the news today that 300,000 GW record, (Unit War Diaries) have been up loaded for viewing on line with all 1,500,000 to follow shortly, that will become a great source. Nevertheless, I have spoken to an Ex KOSB friend of mine, we served together, and he lives in Dumfries and runs the local ex servicemen's branch of the KOSB's, he will look into this for me as the McCall's are well known within the area all related in some way. Reference being on the local war memorial in Shrewsbury he may also be on the local one in the village in Lochmaben, there are case locally where the family put a local lad on the village memorial and he is further mentioned on the Main Town Memorial also. I will keep you up to date on any info I get.

Cheers Hiram

[2li]

Hiram

cheers for reply

Archibald is not commemorated on the Lochmaben memorial as I Know it seen the names on the memorial his not there

do appriciate you help with this

PHIL

[Glengarry1950]

No problem I will keep you inform when ever I hear back from my contact in Dumfries.

Hiram

[Tom Lang]

You can see the Lochmaben War Memorial here:

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic183.html&highlight=lochmaben

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

[2li]

Cheers Tom

Archibald McCall is not on the Lochmaben memorial as we see

what about the CSM W.P. CRIGHTON K.O.S.B., do you have anything on this chap cant seem to find him anywhere

on soldiers died or the C.W.W.G.C.,

PHIL

[Tom Lang]

Sorry Phil,

I can't help with CSM Crichton.

I was only trying to help Hiram to be able to 'see' the Lochmaben Memorial.

Tom.

[2li]

CHEERS TOM

FOR YOUR HELP

PHIL

[Guest JMCCALL]

Hi Phil,

I don't have any more details on his offence or death but the notation on his BWM-Vic medal roll suggests that he was demoted while with the 6th Bn and then posted to the 7th (listed as Private with both Bns). His 6th Bn 1915 Star roll entry states Sergeant. I also have a Dumfries newspaper photo of him which states Sgt-Major, killed in action. It is likely that there will be a report of his death in the newspaper but I don't have a copy (and don't live locally anymore to get one). The photo shows him wearing what looks like a KSLI cap badge, so not sure where this fits into his service history. His KOSB number fits with enlistment into the 3rd Special Reserve Bn KOSB as a man with previous army experience, probably dating around very end of August 1914.

Send me a PM with contact details and I will send you copies of photo and medal rolls.

Stuart

Hi

I am a descendant of Archibald McCall and read with interest that there is a photograph of him?.... Could you confirm the source as we would love to get a copy of this , as none survive in the family

Many Thanks

J McCall

[Glengarry1950]

PPCLI, on 05 Jan 2014 - 9:20 PM, said:

I don't have any more details on his offence or death but the notation on his BWM-Vic medal roll suggests that he was demoted while with the 6th Bn and then posted to the 7th (listed as Private with both Bns). His 6th Bn 1915 Star roll entry states Sergeant. I also have a Dumfries newspaper photo of him which states Sgt-Major, killed in action. It is likely that there will be a report of his death in the newspaper but I don't have a copy (and don't live locally anymore to get one). The photo shows him wearing what looks like a KSLI cap badge, so not sure where this fits into his service history. His KOSB number fits with enlistment into the 3rd Special Reserve Bn KOSB as a man with previous army experience, probably dating around very end of August 1914.

Send me a PM with contact details and I will send you copies of photo and medal rolls.

Stuart

Hi JMCCALL,

Welcome to the Forum, If you look at the post above Stuart say's that the photograph was in a Dumfries paper more than likely the Dumfries Press as it does all the KOSB Regimental Chronicles. That would be the best place to start and you could try your luck with RHQ at Berwick-upon-Tweed they have all the copies of the Chronicles he may be in one of them.

Kind regards

Hiram

[Derek Black]

Hi

I am a descendant of Archibald McCall and read with interest that there is a photograph of him?.... Could you confirm the source as we would love to get a copy of this , as none survive in the family

Many Thanks

J McCall

Hi,

Do you have a story passed down through the family of what may have befell your ancestor?

[Guest JMCCALL]

Hi , . Enlisted for WW1, he was old soldier, we do not know the circumstances of his demob from sgt to tom. It was never mentioned .

I will keep looking for his photo,

J