29th Squadron RFC

[Mark Hone]

Does anyone have more information on operations carried out by 29 Squadron on 4th September 1917? One of our pupils , Lt John Binns was shot down and killed on that date. He was last seen 'in combat' at 3,000 feet over Zonnebeke, later buried by the Germans at Roulers and moved after the war to Tyne Cot. I assume that they were on a ground attack mission, which the squadron seems to have specialized in.

[Dolphin]

Mark

2Lt J H Binns was flying Nieuport 17 A6679 of No 29 Sqn RFC on an Offensive Patrol, ie out looking for enemy aircraft, when shot down and killed over Zonnebeke at about 0705 on 4 September 1917.

A victory was credited to Vzfw Kurt Wusthoff of Jasta 4; it was the 10th of the eventual 27 that were credited to him before he was brought down and taken PoW on 17 June 1918. He died in an aircraft accident on 18 July 1926.

Bob Pearson's excellent drawing of a No 29 Sqn Nieuport 17 is below.

I hope that this helps.

Gareth

[Mark Hone]

Gareth, Thanks very much. Binns was 19 years old and qualified as a pilot in June 1917. A poignant picture of him appears in the Bury Times in flying helmet and goggles leaning proudly against his aircraft.

[chrisharley9]

29 sqn were based at Poeringhe when your lad was lost

All The Best

Chris

[Mark Hone]

Thanks for the info. Where exactly was the airfield? I know the one at Abele and there was one at Proven, but was this nearer Pops itself? We shall be visiting John's grave on our forthcoming Battlefields Tour. He is the only Bury Grammar School boy actually buried at Tyne Cot, although 7 more are on the Memorial To The Missing. John's gravestone was badly faded when I last visited. I believe that his current RAF capbadge will be replaced with the (correct) RFC one when the CWGC put in a new one.

[chrisharley9]

Where exactly was the airfield?

Mark

unfortunately my gazeteer is not any more precise than Poperhinge- however it is a separate airfield to Proven & Abele

All The Best

Chris

[Guest ConwayWard]

Just wanted to say thank you to people who have posted on here. Lt John Binns (known to his family as Jack) was my uncle. Family tradition had it that he was a pilot but I had no idea of the details.

Thank you

[Mark Hone]

I have more details plus a photograph of John taken from his 'Bury Times' obituary. I visit his grave whenever I am at Tyne Cot and have included him in several of my annual Bury Grammar School battlefield tours. His story was one of those read out when we dedicated the school plaque at St George's Memorial Church in Ypres in 2004.

[Roger Austin]

54 Sqn - Poperinghe aerodrome.doc[

Poperinghe aerodrome was given as Sheet 27 F.28.d

The map attached should show the position a few kilometres NW of Poperinghe village.

Edited 27 October , 2014 by Roger Austin

[nils d]

Going back to your first post 29 Sqn may not have been doing much ground strafing at all. Nieuports were poor at such work

and the fact that that they were never fitted with bomb racks says a lot.

[Mark Hone]

Thanks to all those who have posted. The photo of John Binns from the Bury Times be seen on this thread:

 

 

[Mark Hone]

As part of our centenary roll of honour project I'd like to find out as much as possible about 29th Squadron and the mission in which Lt Binns was killed. Although quite a few of our old boys served with the RFC/RAF ( many of them converted ground pounders), only Jack Binns and Harold Wild of 27th Squadron RAF died.

[makj]

Hi,

 

I'm researching a pilot of 29 Sqn. He was a Canadian from Ottawa: 2/Lt. Hugh Braddish Billings. His RFC attestation has him simply as HB Billings. He was shot down on 9 Aug 1917 by Oberleutnant Dostler near Poelkapelle. He survived the crash but died of wounds, possibly on the same day. I'm hoping to find info on his training. When he came into the RFC he was 2nd Lieut, (on prob.) H. B. Billings, S.R (I believe the S.R. was "Special Reserve"). Now, I understand this SR designation originally meant that the pilot came into the RFC with no prior military service. Would this still be true in 1917? His RFC service record notes that he was posted to Oxford on 20 Oct 1916, which means that joined the service before the RFC Canada training scheme was initiated so either he received his training as a civilian in Canada or the USA, OR he signed up and was trained in the UK. He was posted out of Oxford one week later to 27 R.S. in Gosport, from there to CTS (Central Training School ,I assume) on 17 Feb 1917, thence to "D Sqn" CTS on 24 May 1917, thence to "B Sqn" CTS on 16 July 1917, and finally to 29 Sqn on 21 July 1917. He was shot down 19 days later.

 

All this to confirm: Would you all agree that he went to the UK, joined the RFC, and was trained in UK from 20 Oct 1916 through 21 July 1917?

 

Many thanks,

John

 

P.S. I attach his postings

[nieuport11]

That is correct

However, CTS should be CFS: Central Flying School

He was involved in combat over Westroosebeke in Nieuport 23 B3456 during an offensive patrol

RS is Reserve Squadron (later Training Squadron)

[makj]

Many thanks... Of course: CFS... Mea culpa!

 

Just wondering where you find that he was on offensive patrol? Any info would be helpful.

 

Thanks again...

[nieuport11]

Data comes from the Casualty report, the Casualty ledger (both in the TNA) and the Casualty cards in the RAF Museum

Copies sent to you by pm

[makj]

Great! Thanks!

[Mark Hone]

Just reviving this old thread.  I shall shortly be writing Jack Binns' detailed biography for our Centenary Roll of Honour. His uncle, Lt. Will Houghton of 8th Royal Welsh Fusiliers, also an old boy of our school, was killed in Mesopotamia in 1916. 

[Mark Hone]

I have always assumed that Binns' aircraft A6679 was a Nieuport 17 (as mentioned by Gareth in the second post). However, I note that the list of Kurt Wusthoff's victories on 'The Aerodrome' website records it as a Nieuport 23. A minor point, really, but could anyone confirm the identification?

Edited 28 August , 2017 by Mark Hone

[thetrenchrat22]

Mark 

 

above the lines states it was a Nieuport 23 and the sky their battlefield states it was a Nieuport 17 

 

but both state the number of A6679

 

airman died in the Great War states on page 419

 

'Nieuport 17/23 single seat fighter biplane, entered service April 1916 (RNAS), July 1916 ( RFC).  397 Delivered 

Edited 28 August , 2017 by thetrenchrat22

[fetubi]

Hi, It's in a very solid "group" of nearly all Nieuport 17s.  All my records point to it as Ni17  (...except the Cas Rep, which notes Ni23!).

Regards, Trevor

Edited 28 August , 2017 by fetubi

[fetubi]

My old mate Mike O'Connor, who knew more than anyone I've ever met about Nieuports, had it as a Nieuport 17 in his personal database.

Trevor

[Mark Hone]

That's good enough for me. I shall record it as a 17. Thank you to all.