Evan Llyd Jones

[ifanlloyd]

I am trying to find out more about my Grandfathers time in the Great War. He was born 11:08: 1897.

I beleive he served in France and then in Palestine and not in the RWF as thought but with the RHA.I think his army number (??) was 687.

Where is the best place to start searching.

Many thanks

Barr John

[aradgick]

The nearest match I could find was Evan L Jones, 684, Royal Field Artillery, who also served with the Royal Engineers

Andrewr

[Hywyn]

Can you divulge the source for the 687 number?

Is it possible that it was 684 as that number was allocated to a Evan Lloyd Jones who, in 1918 was of Bryn, Glasinfryn (Bangor). It is a Territorial Force (TF) number for the Welsh (Carnarvon) Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery. He must have served with them to 1917 as he was renumbered in the TF renumbering beginning of that year to 310373. Thereafter he went to R E as 452667 before being again renumbered as WR/194697 (enlisted in the RGA TF end April 1915)

The 452667 number is a RE Territorial number from the block allocated to the Welsh Divisional Signalling Coy. I'm afraid I don't know enough about RE to say where they served. If indeed by that time of the war it was with them he served.

Re the WR/194697 number. Again my lack of knowledge in RE lets me down. This renumbering may be because it was from a TF unit to a 'regular' unit. Ther are some knowledgable R E people on here who may comment.

All this of course if this is the right Evan Lloyd Jones.

Hywyn

[ralphjd]

Snap. Beat me to it. Ralph.

[ifanlloyd]

Hywyn,Andrewr

Many thanks,so much info.

The number 684 I found on the back of a photograph.

So I take it his Army number when he enlistedin the RGA was 310373 and in the RE 452667/WR/194697 ????

I supose this would mean that he was transferred to the RE when he was sent to Palestine.

When he was in Plaestine he got Malaria and I have a photograph of him at Minffordd Hospitol in Bangor.

The address for him is correct although is should be Bryn Gwredog,Waen Wen,Bangor (his father was a quarry man at Penrhyn and lost an eye,he was moved to work on the Penrhyn Railway).

What do you recommend me to do now to get more info.

Many thanks

Barry John

[Hywyn]

His papers do not seem to have survived so it remains to try and piece together his war.

He is on the absent voters list (avl) as Sapper 452667 in 98th Light Railway Train, RE

All the numbers, 684/310373/452667 and WR/194967 appear on his medal card which also shows he is entitled to the British and the Victory medals. The first two here

http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/themedals.html

The lack of a 1915 Star denotes he went over some time after 1 1 1916

My study of Welsh (Carnarvon) RGA numbering tells me that 684 would have enlisted last few days of April 1915. This unit had a First line, the 1st/1st Welsh (Carnarvon) RGA and a second and third Line (2nd/1st and 3rd/1st). The 1st/1st went over to France in March 1916. The other two remained in the UK. The fact that 684 is on his medal card means that that is the number he had when he first went over. I think it is fair to conclude that it was with the 1st 1st Welsh(Carnarvon) RGA when they went over in March 1916.

Early in 1917 the whole TF were renumbered

(background reading http://www.1914-1918.net/renumbering.htm )

This is when he got the 310373 number.

At an unknown date he has transferred to RE and numbered as 452667.

This

http://www.1914-1918.net/TF_renumbering_re.htm

identifies the number as a RE Territorial number and tells us that it is in the block allocated to Welsh Div Signalling Coy. I assume the Welsh Div here means the 38th Welsh Div and they were in France. However,with the Infantry TF there are plenty of men by mid 1917 serving in battalions outside their own number block and it may be thatthis was the case for the RE TF.

I believe one if not more of the other Welsh related TF units (the three blocks above his on that link) were in Egypt/Palestine. Someone else may confirm this.

So, we come to the last number, WR/194697.

The WR denotes Waterways and Railways and I belive I'm right in saying that the RE renumbered their transporation troops into the WR/ numbers in early 1918.

From the avl info above he is shown as Sapper 452667 98th Coy Light Railways. The avl is only as good as filled out by families etc and I have found that the numbers and the units often didn't match eg a man could have served as number 123 in Regiment A and as 456 in Regiment B but he would be on the avl as 123 in Regiment B. I say this because he might not necessarily have been in 98th Coy as 452667.

From this

http://www.1914-1918.net/lightrail.htm

you'll see that the 98th was formed in Egypt 17 12 1917 so that accounts for him being there. The unknown is when did he go there and the lack of surving papers put s that firmly into what is known in family lore and what may be in local newspapers.

Hope this helps. It's all rather confusing I know but I couldn't simplify it.

Hywyn

[Hywyn]

The photo you have with 684 on the back. Is it a single photo or a group. Does it have anything else written such as location or date, maybe the photographers name/address. This sort of stuff might help in working his timeline and which unit he was with in the UK etc.

Ditto the Minffordd Hospital episode. Is there a date?

[aradgick]

There is a War Diary for the Headquarters Light Railways Royal Engineers at The National Archives, Kew, covering the period November 1917 to March 1919, reference WO95/4718. As it is not online, you would need to visit and get a reader's ticket to view it.

Andrewr

[ifanlloyd]

Again,thank you. This is all rather amazing. I had no idea of the fact he was in the WDLR.

What makes this even more incredable the WDLR is a hobby/passion. If you have a chance look at my website

www.wdmodels.com.

I am finding this all a bit unreal !!!!!

[Thomas Jones]

Found this thread about Pte. Evan Lloyd Jones while researching our Great Grandmother, Cicely Maggie Jones, who worked in Ysbyty Minffordd Hospital during the War.  This is the photograph mentioned above of the Pte. Jones (on the left) who had treatment malaria in, we think, 1917 after serving in Palestine.  Always satisfying to put a face to a soldiers record.  (Also have it in colour and will post).  There is no identification for the other soldier.  Anyone know if records are available somewhere for the Hospital for us to go through. 

Best, Tom

 

 

 

Edited 28 February , 2021 by Thomas Jones
Pte. changed to Gnr. in photo

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Evan and the other soldier are remarkably similar.

The eyes are identical.

I'd look for a brother on the AVL.

The other soldier is wearing the Territorial Imperial Service badge I think.

[Thomas Jones]

Thanks Dai, good shout... on it 👍

Edited 27 February , 2021 by Thomas Jones

[Thomas Jones]

So Dai, Evan did have a brother, Daniel Lloyd Jones born 1893.   Service record not survived.  What is the 'AVL' thanks?  Any leads on a service number or anything for 'Daniel Lloyd Jones' in the Royal Garrison Artillery / Royal Engineers at the address on the census, Bryn Gwedog, Glasinfryn (near Bangor, Gwynedd)?

 

 

[Thomas Jones]

Gnr. Evan Lloyd Jones  684, 310373, 452667, WR/194697

Royal Garrison Artillery, Royal Engineers

Wound stripe on his left forearm.  Would a soldier receive a wound stripe for Malaria?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 28 February , 2021 by Thomas Jones

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2 hours ago, Thomas Jones said:

What is the 'AVL' thanks? 

The Absent Voters List for Caernarfonshire.

A hard copy exists at the National Library of Wales, but the information may be known to some Caernarfonshire experts @Hywyn

[Thomas Jones]

Thanks Dai.  Don’t think that is a wound stripe on his arm? just realised it’s a chevron but never seen one as low.  Is it a rank chevron?  Many Thanks, Tom

Edited 28 February , 2021 by Thomas Jones

[ss002d6252]

24 minutes ago, Thomas Jones said:

Thanks Dai.  Don’t think that is a wound stripe on his arm? just realised it’s a chevron but never seen one as low.  Is it a rank chevron?  Many Thanks, Tom

It's a good conduct chevron - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Conduct_stripe

 

Craig

[Thomas Jones]

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

It's a good conduct chevron

Cheers Craig 👍

[Hywyn]

There's only Evan at the address in the AVL's. I can't spot anything to identify Daniel Lloyd Jones militarily.

[Thomas Jones]

thanks for looking Hywyn, appreciate that, Tom

[Nathaniel]

Any relationship?

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

7 hours ago, Nathaniel said:

Any relationship?

Welcome,

No he isn't related.
Evan Lloyd Jones was born in Caernarvonshire, North Wales.
Evan Nathaniel Jones was born in Pembrokeshire, South Wales and died in Ohio in 1918.
Evan Jones is a very very common name in Wales and the Welsh diaspora, so I'm afraid that apart from the name, there is no connection.

Edited 5 June , 2022 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Nathaniel]

1 minute ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Welcome,

No he isn't related.
Evan Lloyd Jones was born in Caernarvonshire, North Wales.
Evan Nathaniel Jones was born in Pembrokeshire, South Wales and died in Ohio in 1918.
Evan Jones is a very very common name in Wales and the Welsh diaspora, so I'm afraid rgat apart from the name, there is no connection.

So how can I find info on this chap cause he caught

 my interest

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

You can try Ancestry:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/119510477/person/112133773726/facts

[Thomas Jones]

4 minutes ago, Nathaniel said:

So how can I find info on this chap cause he caught

 my interest

Hello Nathaniel, Dai

This is a page I found on him with a photograph which is great for you.   Theres family members etc. so quite interesting

https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/LJNY-7K4/evan-nathaniel-jones-1837-1918