Help tracing Mercantile Marine

[Tank]

Hi Folks

I need help tracing the career and demise of Samuel Willett who was part of the Mercantile Marine and I think went down with the S.S. Jose de Larrinaga on the 28th April 1917.

Cheers

Tank

[Terence Munson]

Hi - This for starters:

Name:WILLETT, Samuel, Second Steward

31 Hudson Street, Hull

Date of death:28 April 1917

Age:37 Place of death:At Sea

Place of birth:Leicester

Ship's name:Joes De Larrinaga (Liverpool) O.N. 135447

Series: BT334 - Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and

Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at Sea

Box:0071 Page:43

Terry

[kenmorrison]

His entry on the CWGC Register

WILLETT, SAMUEL Rank: 2nd Steward Date of Death: 28/04/1917 Age: 37 Regiment/Service: Mercantile Marine - S.S. "Jose de Larrinaga" (Liverpool) Additional Information:

Son of Samuel Martin Willett, of 14, Back Bedford Place, Park Lane, Leeds, and the late Jane Willett (nee Croshaw Harris). Born at Bagworth, Leicester.

The Jose de Larringa was inbound from Galveston to Manchester when she was torpedoed and sunk by U-81 http://www.uboat.net/wwi/ships_hit/3195.html

Ken

[sotonmate]

Tank

The record cards pre-1918 were disposed of,I seem to remember that some of them were secured by the University of Newfoundland and archived. The 1918 cards and forward from that are at here in the Southampton Archives,with copies (I think filmed) at Kew.

[NFLDREGT]

I am trying to find a picture of ALEXANDER HENDERSON STILL who was a Second/First Mate on Merchant ships during WWI. In the Second War he was Master/Captain of the SS SHEAF MEAD which was sunk by a U boat in the Atlantic. I have found copies of his Second/First/Master certificates on line but no picture so far.

[Tom Wales]

If you can find a copy of his Form CR10 there should be a picture on the back. Try National Archive for starters - they may have it or advice as to where it might be found. Southampton archive is another possibility.

[sotonmate]

I am trying to find a picture of ALEXANDER HENDERSON STILL who was a Second/First Mate on Merchant ships during WWI. In the Second War he was Master/Captain of the SS SHEAF MEAD which was sunk by a U boat in the Atlantic. I have found copies of his Second/First/Master certificates on line but no picture so far.

Southampton will likely have this man's CR cards,theirs are post-1918. I will see if I can get there some time soon to check if he has a pic. Do you have any number for him from Certs ?

While the lady shops I slope off for half an hour ! The Archive is not open every day now (Tues to Thurs 10 - 4).

15 Jan 2014. Just to say that I haven't forgotten,no recent opportunity though.

[pophart]

Hi folks

My grandfather (Francis Thomas Joseph Hart) [born in Australia 1894-1959] served with the British Mercantile Marine in WW1. Fortunately his Certificate of Continuous Discharge is in tact. His Identity and Service Certificate has been preserved too. In 1921, he returned to Australia.

I would like to access specific detail about the position he signed on each vessel ,other than, just "able bodied seaman".His children were of the understanding that he was a merchant shipwright.

The tyranny of distance in Australia compounds limited access to overseas reading rooms and lack of digital copies of actual documents [have used my own subscriptions of Ancestry and Find My Past].

I am looking for detailed information like the T124 Agreements and information that others know about any of the WW1 voyages listed below.

Other details [from cargo manifests, shipping company archives, official log books] like what the vessel he was aboard carried [what kind of cargo] etc would make these entries of more interest especially to great an great-great grandchildren in the year(s) ahead.

Happy to hear from anyone who has suggestions on reliable ways to research [from Australia] or online.

As this is my first post I am hesitant to make specific requests.

Thanks in anticipation

Jan Hart

Details summary of his WW1 entries in his COCD.

Certificate of Continuous Discharge 863268

Identity and Service Certificate number 407291 which is stamped October 1918 at Cardiff.

Querying his stated nationality see attachment The handwriting on the Identity card looks as though it could say British but it also looks like "Blati". The same applies to the handwritten nationality for his father who left Cardiff in1882 to come to Australia with his wife and 3 young children.

No record of how he arrived in England in between approx 1910 and mid 1910's.

i have researched the tonnage, owners, builders, hull of most of these vessels. I really want details of these voyages during the Great War, please.

23th Dec 1916 Kyleakin 121 240S on Penarth O.H.M.S Master Mackenzie off-on January 1917 Penarth,Cardiff disembarked 25 April 1917 Cardiff.

28th April 1917 Kyleakin 121 240S on Cardiff O.H.M.S Master Mackenzie 7th June 1917 off Bristol

20th June 1917 Prairial 106426 on Cardiff O.H.M.S disembarked 12th Dec 1917 Liverpool O.H.M.S Master J Marsden

1st Jan 1918 Landonia 140365 on Cardiff Master H.L. Chambers disembarked 18th March 1918 off Cardiff.

28 March 1918 Fernley on Cardiff Admirality Master Dickie 13th May 1918 disembarked Garston, Liverpool

30th May 1918 Arranmoor 136798 on Barry O.H.M.S Master Listerson disembarked 9th Nov 1918 off Buenos Aires

and after Armistice Day he was on a final Admiralty leg back to England.

21st Nov 1918 Helredale 118860 on Buenos Aires Admiralty disembarked 8th March 1919 off Liverpool

[sotonmate]

Jan

Welcome to the Forum !

If on commercial trade voyages you might get some info from BT (Board of Trade) files on the National Archives database. I took a look at a few and only got refs to some crew members on the Kyleakin,not for the date ranges you seek so possibly a trade voyage.

As they seemingly are on Government lease it is unlikely any will be listed,other than in use on military supply voyages which are likely hidden under a welter of paper in the WO25 Ledgers. There are many of these. You would not see an Index but would need to turn the pages of each ledger to see what ship,where and what it loaded (pax and freight),and where it was bound for.

This has been my experience ,hopefully someone else here may have a more encouraging answer.

Not the best way of presenting your item as it is part of someone else's question which members may have already read and helped,or not. For the future a good idea to start a new post. Good Luck !

[sotonmate]

Jan

I have an example in my notebook which I read through in Apr 2012 and listed the ships involved in movement of military personnel and stores from the UK to the Eastern Med for the last quarter of 1915.

WO25/3537 holds the manifests for 61 ships.

I will see if I can do a bit more in the BT files and at least put you in touch with something to follow up if that is possible.

Are you able to list the ship owners/operators as this might open another avenue ?

[pophart]

Hi and very thoughtful replies - both of them.

I can only say that these snippets offered in the replies and possible sources of info are better than nothing. I would be grateful even for information about whether the voyage was part of a convoy and if there were decoys.

My grandparents were remarkable people and in the past 2 years my interest in Pop's carpentry & shipwright skills has been reignited. His exacting standards seem to have resulted in building(s) here in Australia that have withstood a number of ferocious cyclones and it is mooted his merchant navy service and experience cemented his determination to build structures that have weathered all manner of fierce weather .

Any suggestions are welcomed and I know the access to records requires patience and tenacity.

Thank you both in anticipation regardless of outcome.

Jan

Attached is my unverified notes on vessels that I have pieced together from online sources

Vessels Frank Hart is known to have worked on.pdf

[pophart]

Jan

I have an example in my notebook which I read through in Apr 2012 and listed the ships involved in movement of military personnel and stores from the UK to the Eastern Med for the last quarter of 1915.

WO25/3537 holds the manifests for 61 ships.

I will see if I can do a bit more in the BT files and at least put you in touch with something to follow up if that is possible.

Are you able to list the ship owners/operators as this might open another avenue ?

I have attached a PDF file of vessels as they are listed in his COCD. I have had to set this research aside for 2 years and there may be errors in my research online but I'm out of my depth with the overseas records. I appreciate that COCD and surviving similar docs for Mercantile Marine are rare in England so I am lucky in many respects that we have this key document which is more than most descendants of MM have to work with.

So yes I have the ship owners/ operators I think in attached doc. I have compiled thumbnail detail but could be errors. Thank you for any research you are able to do at your end.

Jan

[pophart]

Jan

Welcome to the Forum !

If on commercial trade voyages you might get some info from BT (Board of Trade) files on the National Archives database. I took a look at a few and only got refs to some crew members on the Kyleakin,not for the date ranges you seek so possibly a trade voyage.

As they seemingly are on Government lease it is unlikely any will be listed,other than in use on military supply voyages which are likely hidden under a welter of paper in the WO25 Ledgers. There are many of these. You would not see an Index but would need to turn the pages of each ledger to see what ship,where and what it loaded (pax and freight),and where it was bound for.

This has been my experience ,hopefully someone else here may have a more encouraging answer.

Not the best way of presenting your item as it is part of someone else's question which members may have already read and helped,or not. For the future a good idea to start a new post. Good Luck !

Hello from the Antipodes.

I was overwhelmed when I started signing up. I was a little intimidated to start a new post and assumed this post was of a broad nature of 'help with tracing merchant marine'.

I trust I will gain insight as I get guidance from those you are 'experts' in the forum and its wealth of years experience.

Do you suggest I start a new post with the same detail or ?

thanks

[pophart]

I have started a new topic titled Australian Seaman records and tried to clarify what I do have and ask for what tips and 'alternate' ways from physical location in Australia that might prove constructive ways of 'finding the proverbial needle in a hay stack'.

Jan

[sotonmate]

Jan

Thanks for the detail. I don't have a visit to Kew lined up yet but will be going sometime in the next month or so. I will see if I can make any answers,even if only to a part of your mission !

I already looked in the database under BT26/BT27 and BT32 just for the names of these vessels (they would contain passenger information but would at least prove where the ships went)but no hits,indicating,maybe,that they were on Govt Service in the years you list.

[sotonmate]

I am trying to find a picture of ALEXANDER HENDERSON STILL who was a Second/First Mate on Merchant ships during WWI. In the Second War he was Master/Captain of the SS SHEAF MEAD which was sunk by a U boat in the Atlantic. I have found copies of his Second/First/Master certificates on line but no picture so far.

N

I have the card CR10 for Alexander. It says his second name is Anderson. IF you PM me your e-mail I will send the pics of both sides of the card,there is a photo too.

[sotonmate]

N

Photos of both sides of card sent.