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Guest Pete Wood

Civilian casualties who are not listed by CWGC

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Boreenatra

Pete. Also this from City of London Cemetery. Regards Steve

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Guest colb

Family anecdote has it that my great-grandfather Thomas Stanton Connell was killed in a ww1 air raid. I know he lived in the Peabody Buildings, Old Pye Steet, Westminster, London from the 1901 census and there is apparently a plaque on these buildings now which commemorates residents killed in ww1. He was a theatrical costumier and so could have alternatively been in the 'theatre land bombing'.

I have seen references to a policeman killed in a zepellin raid at Scotland Yard which is near the Peabody buildings. Does anyone know of a casualty list which might include my ggf please? I have looked through the online scans of the deaths register for 1915/6 but can't find him there.

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deano

Hi

if you check out the Zeppellins over Sheffield website you'll find a roll of honour of sheffield civilians killed by bombing during ww1.

Dean

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Neil Clark

Miss Gladys Alice SPARKES. Ashford Civilian. Killed by enemy action (German Gotha Bomber Raid). Died 18.30 hours 25th May 1917 aged 18 years. Daughter of Charles George Sparkes of 15 Providence Street, Ashford, Kent. Buried in the Old Ashford Cemetery, Canterbury Road, Ashford, Kent. Grave reference – 7287. Gladys was buried 28 May 1917.

Her mother Isabella Rosamund Sparkes (aged 42 years) died in May 1916 at 15 Providence Street, Ashford, Kent. She is buried nearby her daughter in the Old Ashford Cemetery. Grave reference 7175.

In the space of less than 12 months poor Charles Sparkes lost both his wife and his daughter!

The Council burial records state that Gladys body was taken to Folkestone after the air raid. It is not known why this was. Perhaps it was something to do with the Coroner?

Gladys name does not appear on any local war memorial which is disappointing. The civilian war dead of the Second World War were placed on the towns tribute. It would be nice if her name was added in the future…

Interestingly her grave lays besides that of another Ashford lost man – Stoker 1st Class 278041 William Robert PAGE. HMS “Pembroke”. Royal Naval Barracks, Chatham, Royal Navy Reserve (RNR). Died 11th September 1917 of diabetes aged 38 years at 28 Postmans Row, Ashford, Kent. His name does appear on the town’s war memorial but his name is not recorded as a casualty of war by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission which is dissapointing.

Gladys was killed when a German Gotha Bomber dropped a high explosive device on Providence Street, Ashford. Gladys was in the rear garden of her fathers house at number 15. Her death certificate states that the cause of death was a “shrapnel wound in head from explosion of bomb from hostile aircraft on same day”. That day Six bombs were dropped – 2 on Bond Road, 2 on Providence Street, 1 on Rugby Gardens and 1 on Beaver Green. There were other casualties in Ashford that day but none were killed –

James Hook

Thomas Brooke

Ernest Burden (aged 5)

The Kent Coroner Rutley Marsh carried out a coroners inquest on 26th May 1917. The local papers reported that the coroner found that Gladys was “unlawfully killed (murdered) by the enemy”. The Ashford railway works was close by and that was the Germans real target. In any event poor Gladys was caught in the open and paid with her young life.

The Ashford area later came under air attack on the 10th August 1915 when Zeppelin airships dropped bombs all over Ashford.

I have included this civilian case because Gladys death deserves the same kind of recognition as her military counterparts. Had it not been for the war Gladys would never have lost her life.

It is the authors understanding that civilians from the Second World War recorded as casualties of war by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. The civilian casualties of the Great War deserve the same recognition. I therefore put Gladys name forward for consideration. At the very least her name needs to be recorded in some form by the relevant authorities should the commission in the future eventually agree to add the names of WW1 civilian war dead to their indexes (something that is to be welcomed). It should be noted that there are likely to be far less civilian casualties in the Great War than in the Second World War. The majority of civilian war dead is likely to be in the Kent (notably Folkestone) and London areas (Zeppelins and Gotha bombers) and near Hartlepool (coastal bombardment by German warships).

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andypepper

Scarborough bombardments of 1914 and 1917.

Civilians as listed on the town memorial :

MEN

Beal A

Bennett AF

Ellis L

Frith H

Hall J

Harland H

Taylor H

Pickup TT

WOMEN

Bennet J

Crosby EE

Crow A

Duffield A

Merryweather EL

McIntyre B

Painter A

Prue M

Scott E

CHILDREN

Barnes CJ

Ryalls JS

Ward JCH

AT SEA

Appleby RJ

Atkin T

Barker JC

Cappleman EC

Crosby F

Eves E

Flynn J

Hope J

Jowsey R

Kipling H

Littlewood AH

Mansfield JC

Matson EE

Megginson J

Mollon W

Morley W

Nightingale A

Normandale SW

Percy W

Pye JWC

Smith RJ

Taylor I

Tindall F

Trotter H

Walker J

Warwick J

Williams JH

Williamson JH

VADs

McLaughlin MM

McLaughlin EW

Sellors EP

Taylor EE

I assume the 'At sea' listing were fishermen.

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Neil Mackenzie

The three Currie brothers, Roy, Brien and Gordon (aged 10, 14 and 15 although not yet sure who was what) killed in a Zepplin raid on 13 October 1915. They all attended Middle Whitgift School in Croydon.

Neil

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nor.d

17 Civilian victims of the Zeppelin raid on Jarrow, 15th June 1915:

On Tuesday 15th June 1915 at 11.40pm Zeppelin LZ40 (L10) commandeered by Kapitan Leutnant Hisch dropped 7 Heavy Explosive and 5 Incendiary Bombs on Palmer's Works at Jarrow where 16 men died and 72 were injured.

16 civilian workers were killed and 72 injured

The bombing must have been highly censured at the time having just a few lines in the South Shields Gazette on Thursday 17th June 1915

It just stated 16 killed when a Zeppelin bombed Jarrow

On Friday 18th in the South Shields Gazette there was another small column regarding the inquest which noted the following 16 had been killed in the yard:

Albert Bramley 54

Matthew Carter 66

John Cuthbert Davison

Carl Karling 24

Joseph Lane 67

Robert Thomas Nixon 32

Frederick Pinnock 29

Lawrence Frazer Sanderson 16

Thomas Henry Smith 23

Ralph Snaith

William Stamford

Joseph Bechworth Thornycroft 31

William Grieves Turner 20

George Ward

John George Windle 22

William Ernest Cook Young 16

An old lady Ann Isabella Laughlin 62 living across the road from the yard died from shock

The Zeppelin LZ40 (L10) was destroyed by lightning off Neuwerk Island in Germany on 3rd September 1915

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Denis

As this project progresses there will come a point where there will need to be agreement on definitive rules for inclusion, particularly if acceptance by others is an objective. Comparisons with the WW2 CWD will be made. In this connection there was discussion much earlier about criteria such as death being as a result of enemy action, nationality etc. Just taking a very quick look at this yesterday I found three ROC deaths in different parts of the north of Scotland which do not give the impression of being as a result of enemy action yet are recorded by CWGC I found those three very quickly and stopped there but I did check their death certificates online. Apart from those I came across a man in Leeds who appears to be a valid entry but is recorded by CWGC as 'Russian National'. He may have been married to a British woman. I'm sure there were many occasions where the rules were interpreted in different ways. I'm not sure where I'm going with this but it just highlights the fact that putting together any list of names relating to either war is quite a challenge.

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boris

This one is strange, though not a direct result of enemy action but of interest ....on Shildon [New Shildon] war memorial that used to stand in All Saints Churchyard but now on Redworth road there is a name .....

JOSEPH LENG AGED 7 YEARS, DROWNED WHILE VISITING HIS FATHER IN FRANCE ...!

Boris.

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PBI

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MaggieSK

I hope this will help:

Civilian casualties in Dover, Kent, in the Great War

Gertrude Boorman aged 13

Francis Hall aged 7

Jane James aged 47

Annie Keates 52

Evelyn Keates 12

Edith Stokes aged 23

Lucy Wall, young person

There are more too, and a list of injuries, on Dover's Virtual Memorial here

http://www.doverwarmemorialproject.org.uk/

and more details, including pictures

(I'm still researching and writing up, so there's more to come, too)

Best wishes,

Maggie

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martinb

John Charles Newman

Age 46

Died14th July 1917

Killed at the RNAS Felixstowe by enemy aircraft

Buried Trimley St Martin Churchyard

Not listed on CWGC site and no rank on headstone so presume he was civilian worker.

NB Burired with his eldest son Howard Charles Newman who died of wounds received in action in France April 15th 1918 aged 21 years

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pat geary

Pete, You said the casualties had to be as a result of enemy action but that you anticipated some discussion about who does and who does not qualify. How about this one?

Irene Ethel McGEOWN. Civilian. Lived in Lisburn until “a few years” before the outbreak of the Great War where her father had run a stationer’s and photographer’s business in Market Square. Died on the 26.8.1914 aged 33 as a result of a gunshot wound received at about 8.30 on the evening of the 23 August. She was shot in the head by a military sentry outside the naval signaling station at Orlock Hill (mid way between Bangor and Donaghadee) as she was travelling in the back seat of a car driven by her brother-in-law Alfred Chapman, a clothing manufacturer of Malone Park Belfast. The sentry had challenged Chapman four times to stop but, not seeing the sentry and only hearing one command to “Halt”, he had driven on. The sentry opened fire hitting Irene McGeown in the head. She was taken initially to the farm of a Mr. Aird and then to Bangor Cottage Hospital where she died three days later.

Pat

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baorbrat

I am looking for the grave of Jane Charlotte Moss, age 20, and the grave of her son. Both were killed in the Folkestone Air Raid on the 25 May 1917.

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James A Pratt III

I have one Nicholas Johnson, secretary to Lt Gen HIH Grand Duke Michael A Romanov, Tsar Nicholas II's younger brother who technicaly became Tsar for part of a day. On the night of 12/13 June 1918 Johnson and Michael were murdered by the Cheka (Soviet secret Police) outside Perm Russia. They were both striped and buried in a unmarked grave and their bodies have not been found. I hope this is of some interest.

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KevinBattle

Peter, your post seems to have gone unanswered....

A quick Google turns up this report,

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~folkestonefamilies/Tontinestreet.htm

There were from the Cheriton area, which is described in the report as being separate from the Folkestone Tontine Street casualties, so probably a local churchyard there.

16 men, 28 women and 27 children plus a further 18 Canadian soldiers at Shorncliffe Camp.

These seem to be the Canadian etc military casualties:-

DESALEUX, JULES BENJAMIN ALFRED, Gunner. 1250216. 25/05/1917. Age: 29. Canadian Field Artillery. Canadian. Grave R. 540. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
DOIG, ARTHUR.Lance Corporal. 922065. 25/05/1917. 24. Canadian Infantry. Canadian. T. 546. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
MACDONALD, R. Private. 922836. 25/05/1917. 19 Canadian Infantry. Canadian. T. 553. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
McARTHUR, J. Private.922562. 25/05/1917. Canadian Infantry. Canadian. T. 547. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
McNULTY, J D. Gunner. 1251128. 25/05/1917. 25. Canadian Field Artillery. Canadian. R. 539. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
McNAIR, H. Private. 922225. 25/05/1917. Canadian Infantry. Canadian. T. 550. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
MERCHANT, A W. Private. 875090. 25/05/1917. Canadian Infantry. Canadian. R. 543. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
MILLER, JOHN. Private. 202316. 25/05/1917. 41. South Lancashire Regiment. United Kingdom. C. 556. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
TENNYSON, ERNEST. Private. 922331. 25/05/1917. Canadian Infantry. Canadian. T. 548. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
YEO, L G. Private. 226191. 25/05/1917. Canadian Reserve Cavalry Regiment. Canadian R. 541. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
BLOODWORTH, GEORGE HENRY. Private. G/78071. 25/05/1917. 19. Middlesex Regiment.United Kingdom. O. 555. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
BRUCE, JAMES ALEXANDER. Gunner. 2085320. 25/05/1917. 21. Canadian Field Artillery. Canadian. T. 545. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
BROWN, W. Gunner. 342862. 25/05/1917. Canadian Field Artillery. Canadian. T. 551. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
JENNER, O A. Company Quartermaster Sergeant. 273124. 25/05/1917. 26. Canadian Infantry. Canadian. T. 554. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
PADLEY, F. Private. 922556. 25/05/1917. 24. Canadian Infantry. Canadian. R. 542. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
PELLUET, R. Private. 922514. 25/05/1917. Canadian Infantry. Canadian. R. 544. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
SUTHERLAND, JACK. Private. 922299. 5/05/1917. 31. Canadian Infantry. Canadian. T. 549. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
ARBUCKLE, BERT. Gunner. 2085324. 26/05/1917. 38 Canadian Field Artillery. Canadian. S. 538. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
MARSHALL, CHARLES. Private. 875420. 26/05/1917. Canadian Infantry. Canadian. T. 552. SHORNCLIFFE MILITARY CEMETERY
No doubt there are more records available either in Folkestone library, a Local History Group or newspaper archives.
Another quick Google shows that the victims were buried in a part of Cheriton Road Cemetery.

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Jim Strawbridge

I am not sure but I think that Peter Wood withdrew from the Great War Forum some while ago. A great shame as he was a font of knowledge that he was willing to share. A Peter Wood has enrolled two months ago but I don't know if it is the old Racing Teapot or someone totally new.

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baorbrat

Thanks to Kevin Battle for his reply. Jane Moss and her son are not buried in Folkestone, they are buried in an unmarked grave in Cheriton.

The Canadian Soldiers Killed are I understand all buried in Shorncliffe Military Cemetery along with at least one child-the son of a Canadian soldier.

The Moss family are buried in Cheriton

Most (all?) of the other civilians are interned in Folkestone Old Cemetery.

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KevinBattle

Peter, pleased to have been able to help, and the "Thanks" are appreciated, it's part of the ethos of the GWF to try and help if/where we can.

I just got there sooner than others.

I assume the Moss family is related to you in some way?

Having continued reading up on the raid, the impression was that there was a communal grave in Cheriton Road Cemetery.

Photo's showed individual graves for the children, in a double row, so perhaps it's just the adults in a communal grave.

Glad you found it though and were able to pay your respects.

The surprise is that a high proportion of the bombs DIDN'T explode, so one can only guess how high the death toll could have been.

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baorbrat

Kevin, I come from one of the few families in the UK who lost no relatives in The Great War.Three in one day during WW2, all on HMS Hood, and another just before the invasion of Sicily. but none at all in WW1.

Living in Folkestone brings home all the Myths, Lies, and general rubbish we are going to be bombarded with over the next 4 years.i just wanted to find out what really happened in this fabulous town I live in during the Great War. Folkestone's real World War One story needs no embellishment. The Air Raid is part of the true story, it is they who should be commemorated, not the soldiers of over furtile imaginations.

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MIDMED

James Robert Adams Late 1381 Rifleman H / D Coy 1ST Queens Westminster Rifles Died 19th JULY 1917

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tracket

The pages to remember the civilians who died in the Gotha attack on Southend-on-Sea on 12 August 1917 will start to appear on IWM's Lives of the First World War site over the next few months here:https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/community/2667. Please do add any newspaper clippings, photos, stories about them = they deserve to be remembered!

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Marilyne
On 06/12/2007 at 23:04, boris said:

This one is strange, though not a direct result of enemy action but of interest ....on Shildon [New Shildon] war memorial that used to stand in All Saints Churchyard but now on Redworth road there is a name .....

JOSEPH LENG AGED 7 YEARS, DROWNED WHILE VISITING HIS FATHER IN FRANCE ...!

Boris.

 

Referring to my earlier new thread ... 

 

this is the picture of the grave of young Joseph, in Les Baraques Military Cemetery

 

D94A0052s.jpg.6b2e82ad8bb1f4f9cf4ccd2669107f79.jpg

 

what is surprising is that he lays in a CWGC cemetery (albeit not listed in their database)... why was the body not brought back to England?? 

 

M.

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Magnumbellum
4 hours ago, Marilyne said:

 

Referring to my earlier new thread ... 

 

this is the picture of the grave of young Joseph, in Les Baraques Military Cemetery

 

D94A0052s.jpg.6b2e82ad8bb1f4f9cf4ccd2669107f79.jpg

 

what is surprising is that he lays in a CWGC cemetery (albeit not listed in their database)... why was the body not brought back to England?? 

 

M.

 

It is not at all surprising that he lies in a CWGC cemetery. He was clearly military-related, being the child of a soldier, and was in France solely because his father was there as a soldier; the practice of regularly sending such bodies back to Britain was not invented until 1982, in the afternath of the Falklands War, and even then by no means all families asked for that to be done.

 

It was a matter of courtesy by the CWGC - an unusual, but wholly fitting solution to an unusual tragedy.

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Marilyne

Thanks for the clarification !! 

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