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Remembered Today:

Kings Shropshire Light Infantry


Annette Burgoyne
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Guest Pandaplodder

Hi I have noticed that no one has posted in this thread for a while, here are some details for my Great Grandfather

Pvt Joseph Barker, 17466, 5th Bn. King's Shropshire Light Infantry who died age 38 on 25 September 1915 (I assume by that date he died somewhere near Bellewarde?) Son of Thomas Barker, of "Greenfield," Ampthill, Bedsfordshire, husband of Annie Caroline Barker, of 5, King's Rd., Luton. He had three children at time of enlistment with a fourth on the way that he never saw. He was a farm labourer and the family had been living in Shropshire near to the Wrekin although they were from Bedfordshire. His name is on the Menin Gate memorial, but I have never found any record of his name being on a war memorial either in Shropshire or Bedfordshire.

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Ive recently joined this forum and would like to add my grandad to the list

PTE 6392 John William Jones later sgt.

Served in Shropshire Light Infantry which I assume is the same. the medal card does not say Kings

Enlisted 21/12/14

also says CL:Z 3/4/19

and that he forfeited his commemorative medals under rule 1236

I think, its not easy to read. looks like they were the Victory Medal,15 Star and British.

I cant seem to find a citation, although it is mentioned in the London Gazette.

Any further info would be greatly appreciated.

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Hi Pandaplodder & Mad Mick

I have just got in from playing hockey, but will get back to both of you once I have taken a few pain killers read all todays new posts.

Annette

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Hello Annette,

I am trying to find out information about my Uncle Dick's War Service. I didn't even know he had served in the Great War until after he died. He was Pte Dick Gibson 25644 KSLI on his War & Victory pair, but I also inherited his Soldiers Bible (South Wales Borderers, 40536) and a SWB Cap Badge. Please could you have a look to see if he is on your database ? Any information about his movements between Battalions of the two Regiments would be much appreciated. Thanks very much.

Regards

Ron

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Hi Pandaplodder

I was in Ypres a few weeks ago, and was not very far away from the spot were you great grandfather fell, I was visiting the R.E. Memorial & the memorial that marks the line reached by the Liverpool Scottish in their attack on 16th June 1915 on the ridge. From this spot you can look over the area attacked by the 5/K.S.L.I.

I have not fully researched the 5th Battalion yet, but can give you following info. about their attact on the 25th September 1915. According to the Regimental History they occupied trenches in Railway Wood on the 24th in preparation for the attack. I am not so sure if it was Railway Wood they occupied because the 9/R.B. attacked from trenches H20 & H19 which are in front of Railway Wood (it may have been Y Wood or possibly it was Railway Wood and they moved from there to their assembly positions ?). Next in line were the 5/Ox. & Bucks, I am not 100% sure were they attacked from but guess its was from H18a, H17a & H16a (any Ox. & Bucks. experts out there who can help). Next in line were the 5/K.S.L.I., again I am not sure of their jumping off line but possibly the area around about H16a & H15. The 2/R. Irish were on the K.S.L.I. right flank and their objective was the southern half of the western shore of Bellewaarde Lake.

There are very mixed reports on this battle.

According to the K.S.L.I. Reginmental History the bombardment opened at 3.50 a.m. on the 25th, by 4.5 a.m. "A" and "D" and half of "B" Company of the 5/K.S.L.I. were in position for the assault (in front of their trenches). They advanced at 4.20 a.m., and carried its allotted task and reached the second line. The history records that the battalions on the right and left of the K.S.L.I., were unable to reach their objectives, and consequently when the Germans counter-attacked, the position of the 5/K.S.L.I. became untenable, and they had to retire to its original line at 8.15 a.m.

I do not have the 2/R. Irish war diary but John F. Lucy of that battlaion records in his book "There's a Devil in the Drum" that they captured the front line and a few managed to get into the second line.

I have no official account of the 5/Oxfords. & Bucks., as yet. But other reports state that they did not get into German lines. While a lettle sent to one of the family of K.S.L.I. chap by a cpl. of the Durhams in support of them, records that the Oxfords. & Bucks. went fordward with the Shropshires and gain their goal and like the Shropshires had to fall back because of on support. The cpl. of Durhams also recorded that and the R.B.'s fell to a man, principally owing to a mine being exploded, which is not correct.

Thanks to Andy a forum member, I have the 9/R.B. diary entries for the 25th Sept. & also their commanding officers report, neither record the battalion suffering heavy casulties from the mine. The 9/R.B. took their objectives but like the Shropshires fell back under a counter-attack. In the report by the C.O. 9/R.B., which I think he wrote some time after the war, he says both Oxfords. & Bucks. and Shropshires did not leave their trenches, in this he is toldly wrong about the Shropshires, and I am sure I read somewhere that the Oxfords. & Bucks. were very heavy shelled as they got out of their trenches.

As you can see I am far from have all the facts.

The 5/K.S.L.I. casualties were according to the Regimental History 7 offices killed and 5 wounded, 41 other ranks killed, 280 wounded, 100 missing, and 7 wounded and missing. SD records 134 other ranks of the 5th Battalion killed on this day. Only one of these men have a known grave.

Annette

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Hi Pandaplodder

Here is map of the area dated before the attack on 16th June 1915.

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Here is one that I copied by hand of the area which was used for an attack that took place on the 9th August 1915, the trenches lines would not have changed much if all in the in the time up to the 25th September, I did not include the German second line in the area around Bellewarde because I did the map to show the 6th Divisions attack on Hooge. I have marked were I think the 5/K.S.L.I. attacked but again I am not 100% sure of this.

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Hi Mad Mick

I can not tell you a lot about your grandfather Sgt. 6392 John William Jones. The date 21/12/14 is not the date he enlisted but the date he landed in France with the 2nd Battalion. He was a special Reservist, and would have been called up once the war started, he would then have gone to the 3rd Battalion at Pembroke Dock. When the 2nd Battalion returned to Britain from India it need its numbers making up to war strenght, so many of the special reserve were sent to them. I do not yet have his Victory/British medal roll entry yet, so do not know if he remained with the 2nd Batt. or moved to another.

I have seen his Gazzett entry for his D.C.M. but could not find a citation, so can't yet say where or how he won it.

I can not fully make out his 1915 Star medal roll entry but as you say he forfeited his commemorative medals for what looks like 392 (xi), which is I think misconduct ? below is that entry, may soon who knows more about the Kings Regs can tell us more.

The CL:Z 3/4/19 which means he was discarged to class Z Reserve on the date stated, class Z men would have had to have returned to the colours if the Germans kicked off again.

I do not know when I will be getting his Victory/British entry but you wish to get this your self, the rolls are held at Kew.

Do you have any other details that I can add to my database, or evan better a photo of him, I would be very greatfull.

Annette

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Hi Ron

I know little about your Uncle Dick Gibson, I think he enlisted some were around late 1916 (a chap near his number enlisted in the November). Most of the men near his number moved to other Regiments, many to the South Wales Borderers. There are a couple of other ex-K.S.L.I. men near his South Wales Borderers No. (40536), that were killed with the 2nd Battalion South Wales Borderers but I can't be sure he was with that battalion, you (we) need a S.W.B. expect.

Annette

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Hello Annette,

Thanks very much for the information about Uncle Dick Gibson. I'll get a copy of his medal roll, hopefully that will show his unit changes. Thanks again for your help.

Regards

Ron

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Annette that's amazing. thank you very much for your hard work. It doesn't surprise me he forfeited his medals. According to my dad he was a bit of a so and so. I don't have any photographs I'm afraid, which sounds silly, but its a very long story. I have a copy of the medal card and a page form the Gazette, do you have these? or do you want me to mail them?

Cheers Mick

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Hi Annette,

I wonder if you can help.

I am searching for my Granddad who was born in Shropshire on the 19th May 1897. His name was Thomas Fletcher.

I know he signed up for the war in 1914 aged 17 years and went on to fight in the Battle of Vimy Ridge but i am are uncertain as to where he signed up and which battalion he was assigned to. Whilst fighting at Vimy Ridge his trench was blown up and he was buried alive for 3 days, he was found and brought back to the UK where he woke up. I also know he received a lot of medals but again I am not sure what medals he received, i have tried looking on the national archives medal cards but as you can imagine there are alot of thomas fletcher's.

i hope you are able to help and any information given would be very much appriciated

Kind Regards

Stephen

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Hi Stephen

No Shropshire battalion were at Vimy Ridge but two battalion were close to the ridge, the 7th Battalion were at Tilloy during the Battle of Arras and the 6th Battalion were at Mericourt & Acheville between May and mid October 1918. I have found four Thomas Fletcher with the K.S.L.I. and two Thomas Henry Fletcher. Two of these can be ruled out because they were killed, a third can be ruled out because he was in 2nd Battalion and discharged on 19-10-15, I think a four can be ruled out because he was a C.S.M. and a pre-war Regular and also won the D.C.M. but he did serve in the 6th Battalion so can not be totally ruled out. The fifth is 38429 Pte. Fletcher, Thomas Henry, who served in the 1st & 7/K.S.L.I. and trans. to 30/K.L.R., he was formerly 17410 9/S. Lancs. Regt. The K.L.R. No. is 103110. The sixth one is also a Thomas Henry, I do not know this ones battalion but his number falls amoung 8th Battalion men.

Hi Mick I have Sgt. 6392 John William Jones 1915 Star medal roll entry, and I think the medal card records less info. then the roll ?, also I have the Gazette entry but no citation, if you have that I would be very greatful for that thanks.

Annette

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Hi Stephen

No Shropshire battalion were at Vimy Ridge but two battalion were close to the ridge, the 7th Battalion were at Tilloy during the Battle of Arras and the 6th Battalion were at Mericourt & Acheville between May and mid October 1918. I have found four Thomas Fletcher with the K.S.L.I. and two Thomas Henry Fletcher. Two of these can be ruled out because they were killed, a third can be ruled out because he was in 2nd Battalion and discharged on 19-10-15, I think a four can be ruled out because he was a C.S.M. and a pre-war Regular and also won the D.C.M. but he did serve in the 6th Battalion so can not be totally ruled out. The fifth is 38429 Pte. Fletcher, Thomas Henry, who served in the 1st & 7/K.S.L.I. and trans. to 30/K.L.R., he was formerly 17410 9/S. Lancs. Regt. The K.L.R. No. is 103110. The sixth one is also a Thomas Henry, I do not know this ones battalion but his number falls amoung 8th Battalion men.

Hi Mick I have Sgt. 6392 John William Jones 1915 Star medal roll entry, and I think the medal card records less info. then the roll ?, also I have the Gazette entry but no citation, if you have that I would be very greatful for that thanks.

Annette

Hi Annette,

thank you very much for your quick reply, hopefully i can find about more about the ones you have highlighted for me

regards

stephen

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Hi all

Most of the Pals will know that I am compiling a database of all the men who joined the Kings Shropshire Light Infantry (Great War only) but many new Pals may not be aware of this. Any information would be greatfully received. Also willing to do look ups for anyone with K.S.L.I. interest.

One day when finished I will make the database available to Library service or who ever can make best use of it.

Annette

Good Afternnon Annette,would you have anything on My Mates Uncle...Cpl William Whitney,7853,KIA 09.09.1917. and buried atKhandahar Farm Cem...what happened on the Day in Question ?,His brother Herbert was also KIA.....many thanks in anticipation.

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Hi PBI

Cpl William Whitney landed in France on 9th of June 1915 and joined the 5th Battalion. I only have info. from the Regimental History for this battalion. The Battalion were in the front line immediately north of Messines between the 6th & 10th September 1917. The history records considerable activity from aeroplanes, gas and other shells, machine-gun fire and snipers during this tour. Sorry thats all I have.

Annette

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Many,Many,thanks Annette..Regards.

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Annette, do you have Captain Robert H Fowler in your records?

I know he served with the KSLI before WW1 but so far havn't been able to pin down whether he served in WW1.

Regards

Isadore

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J W Jones' DCM entry is here:

LG 22-10-1917

6392 Cpl. (A./Sjt.) J. W. Jones, Shrops. L. I. ("E" Shrewsbury)

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType=

His citation is here:

LG 26-1-1918

6392 Cpl. (A./.Sjt.) J. W. Jones, Shrops. L.I. ("E." Shrewsbury).

For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty when in charge of a party carrying stores to the front line. After his guide had been wounded he pushed on through an intense barrage. Though buried on two occasions and losing the majority of his party, he eventually completed his task, carrying a great part of the stores which had been dropped by casualties. It was entirely owing to his determination and splendid example that very urgent stores were got forward.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType=

Steve.

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Hi Isadore

Sorry I have not come across a Robert H Fowler but will try and keep a look out for him.

Hi Steve

Thanks for finding A./Sjt. J. W. Jones citation, I am hopeless at searching the gazzett. Sometimes the citation can give a clue to the battalion but in this case not.

Annette

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Annette thank you. I dont believe that he served in WWI but it is believed here locally that he did.

I can't find a Medal Card for him and he would have been 57 years of age in 1914 I think he would have retired by then.

Thanks again

Isadore

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Hallo Annette,

Yet another request about Pte. L.J.Meek. As you know he transferred from the Herefords to the KSLI then on to the 11th Bat. Border Regiment in September 1916. From his Regimental number '20520' is it possible to know when he joined the Shropshires (not sure which Battalion), and could he have seen any action before he joined the Borderers?

Dennis.

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Hi Dennis

The number range that Pte. L.J.Meek falls into is a very gray area for me at moment. All men from Regimental number 20370 to 20625 trans. to other units (except for about a couple of dozen who seem to stayed with K.S.L.I.). The earlist date of death amoung these men is November 1916 but as to when they joined the K.S.L.I. I can not say. I have not yet got around to asking Myrtle about the Hereford Regt. lads who trans. to K.S.L.I. She may know more.

Hi Isadore

he would have been 57 years of age in 1914

At that age he may have been on the Base Staff at Shrewsbury, I have a photo somewhere of Staff with name on, I'll see if I can find it.

Annette

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