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Annette Burgoyne

Kings Shropshire Light Infantry

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6th Shropshires
36 minutes ago, delta said:

Welcome back - we've missed you!

Thanks delta but will only be popping in now and then-I have made a bit of a rode for my own back with my day by day account for my facebook page and do not have the time to visit the Forum-I should not be on here now-got very long casualty lists I should be getting on with.

Edited by 6th Shropshires

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NMilne

Thanks very much Annette - I know that busy feeling so really appreciate any help you can give.  

A further update for you and some change of information is that I have now found a birth certificate with a stamp on it from 'The Recruiting Office - 23rd Recruiting Area' and dated 14 November 2016.  So I must have been wrong in saying he joined up in 1914 - it may well have been November 2016 instead.  His name on the birth cert was 'David William Rowlands' rather than 'Davitt William Rowlands'.  Hope this helps...  thanks again Niamh

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ss002d6252
6 minutes ago, NMilne said:

Thanks very much Annette - I know that busy feeling so really appreciate any help you can give.  

A further update for you and some change of information is that I have now found a birth certificate with a stamp on it from 'The Recruiting Office - 23rd Recruiting Area' and dated 14 November 2016.  So I must have been wrong in saying he joined up in 1914 - it may well have been November 2016 instead.  His name on the birth cert was 'David William Rowlands' rather than 'Davitt William Rowlands'.  Hope this helps...  thanks again Niamh

The birth cert would need to be verified by the army for dependents pensions etc so the date it was stamped is the date it was verified, that may well not have been the date he joined up. The recruiting office could just have been where his wife took the copy to be verified.

Craig

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NMilne

Thanks Craig - good to know but he was only 17 or 18yrs old in 2016 and he didnt get married until June 1925. Thanks for replying though... Niamh 

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ss002d6252

If he was only that age in 1916 then it looks like it was for him however it was unusual for the army to request a birth certificate on enlistment.

Craig

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billwebb
On ‎10‎/‎08‎/‎2014 at 10:53, MattB said:

Hello,

Last week I bought a number of postcards from a shop in London. Many of them appear to be men of the KSLI. I snapped them up as they were all named and many have regimental numbers and address and some have d.o.d. They appear to have come from an album which has been broken up.i wil try to get back to the shop this week to see if the are any more. I was planning to research the families and upload on to ancestry and lives of ww1. However, I wonder if they are of interest and would be happy to share and post here or send to people on request.

I'll go through them thoroughly but names are:

W L Hales of Whitchurch

J H Cotton of Salop

C Ogden of Nelson

T Deakin of Hadley

W H Stokes

Sapper John W Higgins

Joseph Nelmes Scudamore

A J Hathaway no. 33695 of Handforth

H. A Ovens

G Whitbread of Bacup

S Gough

H Higginson no. 1533

I hope that they might be of interest.

Matt

 

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billwebb

Hi I am researching the local  Ross-on-Wye men who died in the Great War Joseph Nelmes Scudamore was one of them, if you have a  picture could I have a copy to include in a booklet I am preparing for the church.   Thanks.   Bill Webb

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6th Shropshires
On ‎28‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 16:33, NMilne said:

Hi Annette..... I have just found a KSLI beret badge in my mothers belongings. It belonged to my grandfather, Davitt William Rowlands. Unfortunately we have no information about his time in the army as he wouldn't talk about it. I only have a vague idea that he was rumoured to have been a regular soldier and lied about his age to join up - he was born in 1897 so he may have joined up in 1914.  He came from Bala in North Wales but had also worked in Aberystwyth. Would there be any way of finding out anything more? Thanks for your help... Niamh

Hi Niamh

 

The only David William, Rowlands that I could find had the Regimental number 28315, and had been transferred from the Cheshire Regiment along with a large number of others on the 8th April 1918 (this is also the date he likely landed in France), most of them were posted to the 7/K.S.L.I. as was David William, Rowlands. I have the service and pension papers for many of these men, and those  who were posted to the 7th Battalion joined it on the 15th April 1918.

 

I have no way of knowing if this is your grandfather for sure but a man close by his number came from Llanelly but most of the ex Cheshire Regiment lads came from all over the Country. I can not say when he enlisted you will need to ask someone who knows the Cheshire Regiment well, his Cheshire number was 65507.

 

Regards

Annette

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6th Shropshires
On ‎13‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 15:24, billwebb said:

 

 

On ‎13‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 15:27, billwebb said:

Hi I am researching the local  Ross-on-Wye men who died in the Great War Joseph Nelmes Scudamore was one of them, if you have a  picture could I have a copy to include in a booklet I am preparing for the church.   Thanks.   Bill Webb

 

Hi Bill

 

Matt as contacted me and sent me your draft for your booklet, while I have not had time to fully look at it the lay out looks great.

 

 You are a little out by saying he was conscripted in late 1916, going by my database I place the date he was called up at around the 19th July 1916, and I place him landing in France from December 1916 onwards -several men near his number and who joined the 1st Battalion landed in December and joined the Battalion on the 12th of that month (a draft of 136 arrived at the Transport lines on this date).

 

Regards

 

Annette

Edited by 6th Shropshires
missed out word

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NMilne
On 12/15/2016 at 20:53, 6th Shropshires said:

Hi Niamh

 

The only David William, Rowlands that I could find had the Regimental number 28315, and had been transferred from the Cheshire Regiment along with a large number of others on the 8th April 1918 (this is also the date he likely landed in France), most of them were posted to the 7/K.S.L.I. as was David William, Rowlands. I have the service and pension papers for many of these men, and those  who were posted to the 7th Battalion joined it on the 15th April 1918.

 

I have no way of knowing if this is your grandfather for sure but a man close by his number came from Llanelly but most of the ex Cheshire Regiment lads came from all over the Country. I can not say when he enlisted you will need to ask someone who knows the Cheshire Regiment well, his Cheshire number was 65507.

 

Regards

Annette

Hi Annette - what a lovely surprise to see your note! This is great information and I'm very excited to go further now with my quest. Thanks so much - i will let you know how I get on... Merry Christmas... Niamh 

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wolvesarchives

Hi Annette

 

Not sure how complete your database is now, but in case you need further information, two of our local Wolverhampton men who were in the KSLI and have been featured on our "Wolverhampton's War" blog are:

 

If you have information about any other Wolverhampton men (including Bilston, Wednesfield, Tettenhall and Heath Town) in the KSLI, we would love to feature them in future blog posts!

 

Thanks.

 

Heidi

(Archivist)

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Guest
On 2/11/2013 at 17:09, GraemeClarke said:

Hi Annette

After a bit of help, please.

There is a 'Samuel' Ricketts on the Walsall RoH but he is actually

Private 6487 Arthur Ricketts, 2nd K.S.L.I., killed in action 16 May 1915 at 32 years of age.

Do you have anything on him at all, please.

He appears to have served for 8 years prior to the war but I am struggling to find him.

(Theres 2 'Arthur Ricketts on FMP from Walsall, one blue eyed and one brown eyed, but no trace of KSLI )

many thanks,

Graeme

 

20170801_103325.jpg

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Guest
On 2/11/2013 at 17:09, GraemeClarke said:

Hi Annette

After a bit of help, please.

There is a 'Samuel' Ricketts on the Walsall RoH but he is actually

Private 6487 Arthur Ricketts, 2nd K.S.L.I., killed in action 16 May 1915 at 32 years of age.

Do you have anything on him at all, please.

He appears to have served for 8 years prior to the war but I am struggling to find him.

(Theres 2 'Arthur Ricketts on FMP from Walsall, one blue eyed and one brown eyed, but no trace of KSLI )

many thanks,

Graeme

 

20170801_103233.jpg

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bungywd

Hi Annette,

my name is Byron Williams, my grandfather served in the first world war, and survived. 

I have been researching his time in the 5th and 10th brigades 1914 to 1919 

having only just found the web site, I have some information, is there any chance of some help?

regards

Byron

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Guest alaskafurrydog
On 10/4/2010 at 13:35, MattCope07 said:

Hello There

Im New to this forum but i noticed what a great collection of names you have about the KSLI..

Now i was wondering if you could help me with my great grandfather

He was a L/Cpl Harry Cope and served in the KSLI in ww1, He was awarded a bravery medal for some reason and im dying to find out more!!

I also believe he was wounded in 1917

Thank You for any info you can give me

Matt

I'm very late to this conversation..and don't know what you have found out by now Matt. In 2007 Roger Cope Harry's Grandson wrote a piece in the BBC I'll put the link at the base of this entry just in case you haven't seen it. ..I'll also copy it here....

from BBC ...."

ROGER COPE, GRANDSON OF LANCE CORPORAL HARRY COPE

 

L/Cpl Harry Cope
L/Cpl Harry Cope

 

My family and I have just returned from a holiday to Ypres where we used my grandfather's regimental history book to visit all the places he went to 90 years ago. He'd put crosses and comments next to many of the places.

My grandfather served with the 6th Battalion Kings Shropshire Light Infantry which was part of the 20th Light Division. He took part in The Battle of Langemarck which was the second phase of the third battle of Ypres, or the Battle of Passchendaele.

The strongest memory we carried home from our trip was that of the Last Post being played at the Menin gate. We attended four times and each time could not help but notice how it affected all who attended, from the very young to the very old.

My grandfather was awarded the military medal and mentioned in dispatches for particularly good work. He was the sole survivor of his machine-gun crew when he was awarded the medal. He came back injured, to life as a farmer in Shropshire.

My grandfather died 30 years ago when I was 15. I still remember him with fondness as I spent a great deal of my childhood with him. "

..............................................

This page is archived now I think but still accessable at the link below

HERE http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/6446617.stm

My Grandfather was Harry's brother and I remember meeting Great Uncle Harry as a child. He was a very charming man and a true gentleman ..I'll always remember how cut me a rose from his garden and presented it to me. The Medal from the machine gun incident fit's with the story my Mother told me..she also told me that they wanted him to become an officer but he didn't like the idea of having to have his hair cut ...shorter ? I presume. He married for love rather than money and was a lovely chap. Born in 1894 in Sowdley, Cheswardine, Shropshire...he died in 1973  My Gramps was one of his older brothers and was in the Yeomanry before the war but didn't pass the medical so (fortunately for us!) could not go to War He had suffered an abscess on the brain after being kicked in the face by a horse and had periodic seizures. Gramps (Douglas Cope 1887-1974) in the yeomanry Middle row far left The yeomanry image.png.332b52c881cf89f28d12ec0e71773de1.png

groups must have been quite local as this snap is of men recognisable in this 1905 photo of the local hamlets football team. 

image.png.4d582e1755efd8649d131ba7f85d901b.png

 

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Corybom

Hi my great grandfather Serjeant Arthur George Pope (reg-8200) served in the 7th battalion KSLI and died on 21/8/1918 I believe... from information gathered he was wounded on 3 separate occasions returning each time.. was wondering if their is any documentation or information at all about Arthur and his role in the KSLI or a push in the right direction as to where I might find such information.

 

thanks 

cory

Edited by Corybom

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lexxie

Hi Annette

Do you happen to have any information on 11614 Pte William Weaver 6th KSLI?

 

I purchased his 15 star trio recently but couldn't find anything on him

 

Thank you in advance

Mark

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Michelle Young

Annette hasn’t visited the forum since 2008, so I very much doubt if she will see your request 

 

Michelle 

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Madmeg

Hi Annette,

I am trying to track down as much info as possible for my great uncle Joseph William Gilbert SIMMONDS of Bicton Heath Shrewsbury b 1899. He ran away from home to join up as a bugler at age 15 and got sent to the trenches. Whilst out there (so family legend has it) he was seen by his older brother Jack (John Knight Simmonds) who had emigrated to Austraila and come back with the AIF. Jack was horrified to see his kid brother there and wrote to oldest brother Burt (Henry Burton Simmonds) who then contacted the War Office to get Joe discharged- by which time he had possibly been gassed and had contracted TB. Joe then worked in the records section of the Army Pay office in Shrewsbury along with two of his older sisters (Mildred Sarah and Dorothy Alma) until the end of the war.

 I have always been stymied by not being able to find the records for a Joseph William Gilbert - of course he could easily have lied about his name as well as his age. There are so many records for Joseph Simmonds/Simmons/Symmonds etc etc and I don;t have subscritpions to FMP or Ancestry so can only get as far as the indexes.

Some extremely kind and helpful people on these pages have, however, found a Joseph Simmons 2335- Shropshire yeomanry, 26634- 6/btn KSLI and 229080- Monmouth regt which could very well be him. Another option is a James Simmonds who was also in the Shropshire yeomanry and KSLI -I have photographs of "uncle" Joe in both uniforms, obviously younger in the Yeomanry uniform along with his bugle- and wearing what has been identified as an Imperial service badge.

Jack was only with his unit in France between September 1916 and December 1916 and again after Jan 1918 -by which time Joe would have been too old to get a discharge.

Would you be able to check your records to find out where the 6th btn was during those months in 1916 (or at other times). I have 2 years of experience in general family history research but ww1 records are a bit of a new thing for me.

 

Any and all help very gratefully received!

Jane

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MikeyH

Jane,

 

On the 4th September, the 6th Batt. were near Guillemont, on the 7th they marched to Bois Les Tailles and the next day to Corbie for rest.  Next they moved to Carnoy and on the 16th to trenches in front of Waterloo Farm.  After the capture of Guillemont, they went back for a short period of rest.  They then marched to Morval and later returned to Carnoy, then moved to Mons Wood, on the 3rd and 4th of October they moved up into the line, and were in reserve on the 7th during the battle of the Tranlsloy Ridges.  From 9th October to 9th December, they were out of the line resting.   (this from the History of the K.S.L.I. in the Great War)

 

Mike.

Edited by MikeyH

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Madmeg

Thanks Mikey, next stage will be to try and find out where his brother's unit was.....That gives a very short time period for the meeting! What a lot of marchng about for the poor *******.

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kenf48

To continue from your other thread:-

 

The Tank Corps records on FMP show J Simmonds formerly 229080 Monmouth Regiment enlists in the Territorial army on the 13.4.22 age 22 years and nine months

He previously served 2 years 291 days.  Mother is shown as Mrs F J. Simmonds St Petrox Paignton Devon.  He was discharged 2years later.  I assume F.J. is his mother Fanny Johnson Simmonds as shown on the 1901 census, if this is so it is a positive identification.

 

This soldier also appears in the Silver War Badge Roll which give an enlistment date of the 19 January 1915 in the 2/1 Shropshire Yeomanry.  TF Units were pretty relaxed about age limits, the man next to him was 58 years old!  He could legitimately enlist in the TF for home service aged seventeen.

 

Based on surviving records he was posted to the 4th Reserve Bn of the KSLI probably on or around the 20 September 1916 and from there he was posted to France on the 29 September 1916.  At the Base Depot, in accordance with Army Order 204 1916 (effectively saying a TF soldier could be transferred to a regular or service Battalion) he was posted to the 6th KSLI and renumbered 26634.

 

At some point after March 1917 (we can date it to when the TF was renumbered) he was posted to the 1st Battalion Monmouthshire Regimen, both the 1/1 and 2/1 Battalions were Pioneers.  He was discharged from that unit on the 5th November 1917. His age on discharge was given as 20 years 4/112 months.  His discharge was ordered under Para 1A of A.O.11 dated 10.8.1917.  

The age on the Roll was his 'Army age' i.e. on enlistment he had probably stated he was 18, and therefore in September 1916 his Army age would have been 19 and therefore he was liable for active service.

 

I think it is unlikely there is any substance to the family story.  They may have written to the War Office but they were usually quite stubborn and even when presented with evidence stuck to the age the soldier gave on enlistment.

 

Ken

 

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Madmeg

Wow, Thanks Ken.

That will indeed be him. His sister Gerta (and possibly Kitty) ran St Petrox as a bed and breakfast for a number of years. His mother Fanny Johnson died in Paignton in 1924- his father died in 1919. I hadn't realised the family were living in Paignton as early as that. They were there through the second world war along with my grandmother. 

I believe soldiers theoretically were discharged on proof of age- birth certificate- but of course the army often hung on to them until they were old enough to be hung onto permamently!

He was born in July 1899 so the 1922 re- enlistment would be accurate but not the earlier record- so definitely lied about his age- no way was he 20 in 1917!

The family story came from his older sister- so far her stories have been remarkably accurate bearing in mind she was telling them to me 70 or more years after they happened. But she also said he worked at the Army Pay Office which certainly isn't showing up in that record, I'll get on the local library free subscription to Ancestry and FMP at the end of the week and get into those records you have so kindly found.

Next job will be to try and see if I can work out where Jack's unit was.

Just wish I'd been old enough to ask the right questions while Joe was still around.

 

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John Dunn

 

Hi Annette,

Some months ago we discovered that a Great Uncle had died in the Great War. We have managed to locate some information courtesy of research undertaken by a group of people connected to the 'Wellington Remembers' initiative to commemorate the 184 servicemen who gave the ultimate sacrifice, and are named on the Lychgate of the Wellington Parish Church.

There are a number of questions which remain unanswered, to which we hope that you may be able to answer of provide clues as to where we may find information. Access to the records held at the National Archives returns a 'No records Found' response, which leads us to believe that the records were destroyed during the Blitz.

The information that we seek concerns:-

10589 Corporal Albert Dunn, C. Company, 5th. (Service) Battalion, KSLI.

He was killed on the 7th. June 1915, aged 29.

Burial took place at Kemmel Chateau Military Cemetery, Belgium. (we have visited the grave recently).

 

Questions requiring answers:-

How was he killed i.e. Bullet, Shell, Gas.

Exactly where was he killed - The report prepared by the above group from the War Diary, states:-

'On 31st May the men moved from Eecke to dugouts 2 miles southwest of Ypres, where their first casualties were recorded on 2nd. June. They moved back to huts and bivouacs on 3rd. June and on to Locre the next day, when the War Diary tells us: 'Fine, marched at 7am to Locre and bivouacked in a field. C & D Coy. under Major Forbes, who went up to the trenches at 8.15pm for instruction. 'On the following day it continues; 'Fine weather and hot. C & D Coys. Still in tranches, Pte. Hallett, D Coy. killed by rifle grenade, and buried at 9.30pm in Kemmel Chateau Cemetery. Cpl. Dunn, C Coy. killed. Pte. Lewis and Evans, C Coy. wounded.'

We are also attempting to ascertain if his medals were sent to one of his relatives.

 

Any information that you are able to supply will be much appreciated.

 

Regards

John Dunn

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Michelle Young

Welcome to the forum John. Annette is no longer an active member here, you could try looking for her on Facebook, she is active on there.

Regards, Michelle 

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