jameeuwsen Posted 16 December , 2013 Share Posted 16 December , 2013 Can anyone identify the regiment from the soldier on this photo. Thanks for your help, Jan Meeuwsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 16 December , 2013 Share Posted 16 December , 2013 Jan Welcome to the Forum He is a Musician in the Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders. He is also wearing two long service stripes indicating around 6 to 12 years service. From the style of the photograph, this probably dates from the late 1890s. What interests me is the Photographer as, having been brought up in South Farnborough and North Camp, I have never heard of "The Pavement" address! Do you have a name for this Highlander? Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 16 December , 2013 Share Posted 16 December , 2013 Sepoy is correct. One refinement: He is a Bandsman of the Q.O. Cameron Highlanders. "Musician" was used in the Guards. The subject in the photo is probably from the first battalion because he wears the pre-1881 pattern plaid brooch that was carried over for many years by Pipers and Bandsmen; I do not think I have seen a photo of a post-1897 2nd Bn Cameron wearing the old pattern brooch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 16 December , 2013 Share Posted 16 December , 2013 I have just been advised by a friend, who specialises in the history of Farnborough, that the Pavement is in Lynchford Road and dates from around 1898. James Thomson is shown as a Photographer in Lynchford Road in a Street Directory for 1911. I have added a current Google Earth image showing where the photographer shop would have been. Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 16 December , 2013 Share Posted 16 December , 2013 Sepoy, With the photo taken in Farnborough, could we not conclude that this Bandsman's battalion was stationed at Aldershot? The 1st Bn Q.O. Cameron Highlanders were at Aldershot 1910-1912 thus making this window the likely period of this photo. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameeuwsen Posted 16 December , 2013 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2013 Hello Sepoy, The surname of this sodier is unknwn to me. At the back of the foto only a remark " from Jack to Emma ". Emma is my grandmother Emma Elizabeth Keeys and I am the owner of a old photo album of Emma and het mother. Regards, Jan Meeuwsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 16 December , 2013 Share Posted 16 December , 2013 Sepoy, With the photo taken in Farnborough, could we not conclude that this Bandsman's battalion was stationed at Aldershot? The 1st Bn Q.O. Cameron Highlanders were at Aldershot 1910-1912 thus making this window the likely period of this photo. Mike Mike Do you know which Barracks the 1st Bn Cameron Highlanders occupied, whilst stationed at Aldershot? Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 16 December , 2013 Share Posted 16 December , 2013 Hello Sepoy, The surname of this sodier is unknwn to me. At the back of the foto only a remark " from Jack to Emma ". Emma is my grandmother Emma Elizabeth Keeys and I am the owner of a old photo album of Emma and het mother. Regards, Jan Meeuwsen Jan It is a real shame that you do not have a surname for the Highlander, it would have been interesting to discover whether he continued to serve during the Great War. Either way, it is an excellent photograph. Would you have any objections if I post this photograph on the "Welcome to Historic Farnborough" Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/6907700962/), attributed to yourself? Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 16 December , 2013 Share Posted 16 December , 2013 Mike Do you know which Barracks the 1st Bn Cameron Highlanders occupied, whilst stationed at Aldershot? Sepoy Sepoy, I am afraid I do not know. Below is an image of the Pipes & Drums said to have been taken at Aldershot in 1910 with barrack building behind. Perhaps, as a long shot, this may spring some recognition. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 16 December , 2013 Share Posted 16 December , 2013 Sepoy, I am afraid I do not know. Below is an image of the Pipes & Drums said to have been taken at Aldershot in 1910 with barrack building behind. Perhaps, as a long shot, this may spring some recognition. Mike Mike Thanks for adding the photograph. Unfortunately, most of the Barrack blocks in North Camp, Aldershot were built to similar designs so it may be difficult to recognise. Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameeuwsen Posted 16 December , 2013 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2013 Sepoy, I don`t have any objections if you post the photo on the Farnborough page on Facebook. I even don`t know of Jack is a family member of Emma or just a friend, there is another photo of Jack and Emma made in January 1916 while Jack was on leave. On this photo he is not in uniform but he were spurs on his boots, you can see this photo on my Flickr page ( follow the link ) with a few other photo`s of my grandmother. http://www.flickr.com/photos/28075216@N03/8185206925/ Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameeuwsen Posted 16 December , 2013 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2013 Mike, You post a groups photo on one of your answers. Is it possible for me to download a high resolution of this photograph someware , maybe it is possible to enlarges the faces on the phot and see of Jack ?? is in the group as wel. Regards, Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 16 December , 2013 Share Posted 16 December , 2013 Mike, You post a groups photo on one of your answers. Is it possible for me to download a high resolution of this photograph someware , maybe it is possible to enlarges the faces on the phot and see of Jack ?? is in the group as wel. Regards, Jan Jan, I would be pleased to send you the full resolution version of the photo if you PM your email address to me. Please be aware, however, that Jack was a member of the military band. The photo I posted was of the Pipes and Drums. So, I do not think you will locate Jack in that photo. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameeuwsen Posted 17 December , 2013 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2013 Hello Mike, My e-mail adress is seagull@hotmail.nl Do you know of there is a list with names of members of the regiment at the time they stayed on Farnborough. If Jack is family of Emma I can look for a surname out of the family tree. Regards, Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 17 December , 2013 Share Posted 17 December , 2013 Hello Mike, My e-mail adress is seagull@hotmail.nl Do you know of there is a list with names of members of the regiment at the time they stayed on Farnborough. If Jack is family of Emma I can look for a surname out of the family tree. Regards, Jan Jan, The only place that members of the 1st Bn Cameron Highlanders 1910-1912 (when they were at Aldershot) is recorded is in the Quarterly Muster Rolls and Paybooks that are held at the UK's National Archives. You can pinpoint the relevant rolls by doing a search on the NA's site, but they are not available online. You would have to order them in hardcopy, but that will turn out to be very expensive because they are very reluctant to search out relevant pages. The best answer is to go there in person which is certainly not very satisfactory. Perhaps, someone else on the Forum may have better advice. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 17 December , 2013 Share Posted 17 December , 2013 Jan, The only place that members of the 1st Bn Cameron Highlanders 1910-1912 (when they were at Aldershot) is recorded is in the Quarterly Muster Rolls and Paybooks that are held at the UK's National Archives. You can pinpoint the relevant rolls by doing a search on the NA's site, but they are not available online. You would have to order them in hardcopy, but that will turn out to be very expensive because they are very reluctant to search out relevant pages. The best answer is to go there in person which is certainly not very satisfactory. Perhaps, someone else on the Forum may have better advice. Mike Unfortunately, the Musters/Pay Books are not available for this period. See here http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/army-muster-1730-1898.htm It may be worth searching the Service papers shown on Findmypast or Ancestry for the Cameron Highlanders just in case a name springs out. It would be a major task..... Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 18 December , 2013 Share Posted 18 December , 2013 Unfortunately, the Musters/Pay Books are not available for this period. See here http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/army-muster-1730-1898.htm It may be worth searching the Service papers shown on Findmypast or Ancestry for the Cameron Highlanders just in case a name springs out. It would be a major task..... Sepoy The only other place to pursue this might be a query to The Highlanders Museum at Ft. George that holds the Regimental collections for the Seaforth Highlanders and Cameron Highlanders. They are unlikely to have much on Other Ranks, however, other than medal rolls. It is a long shot but possibly worth a try. As Jack was a Bandsman, there may be photos in their collection of the 1st Bn Band during your period of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameeuwsen Posted 19 December , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2013 Another question about Jack, is it allowed for Englisch soldiers to serve in a scottisch regiment or is it necessary to be born in Scotland? Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 19 December , 2013 Share Posted 19 December , 2013 No need to be Scottish at all. As the sergeant said when I joined the London Jocks, "We have room for a few sassenachs" ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameeuwsen Posted 30 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 30 March , 2020 Last week after years of research on my English family I found the name of the soldier in the Scottish uniform, first you are right he served in the Queens Own Cameron Highlanders from 1898 until 1910, his name was John Francis Dicks and his Reg Nr. 4585, in 1910 he signed in for the Middlesex Regiment, first as private and later on as Lance Corporal, his Reg Nr for this period was 13275. I found a report on Ancestry, it is hand written and difficult to reed ( I am Dutch ). Is there a member of this forum who can and wil help me. Attached a photo of John Francis Dicks ( Jack ) with my grandmother in 1916, on his boots I see spurs, are there horses in the Middlesex Regiment ?, Kind regards. Jan Meeuwsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 30 March , 2020 Share Posted 30 March , 2020 (edited) Congratulations, and thanks for updating this thread. What are the hand-written records you'd like help with, Jan? John Francis Dicks was a soldier of the 4th Battalion, Middlesex Regiment when was made a prisoner of war on 23rd August 1914. Some of his pension records are also on Ancestry, including some for his Middlesex service. He arrived back in England on 18th November 1918, which - given his long period of imprisonment - suggests he might have been interned in Holland in early 1918; my grandfather (a prisoner since 26th August 1914) was interned in Holland then and was repatriated on the same date as Dicks, disembarking at Hull from SS Arbroath on 18th November 1918. Incidentally, to clear up the discussion from years ago, his papers show Dicks enlisted as a 16-year-old musician and served at least initially with C Company, 2nd Cameron Highlanders. Cheers, Pat. Edit: his records say he returned "from Germany" on 18th November 1918 Edited 30 March , 2020 by Pat Atkins correcting date of PoW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 March , 2020 Share Posted 30 March , 2020 (edited) Jack is wearing a mounted duty pattern greatcoat in the photo with his lady friend. He is an older soldier who had served since being a boy-bandsman, so by 1914 was one of the older but highly experienced soldiers in 4th Middlesex. The spurs and greatcoat together suggest that he was a member of the battalion transport, who were responsible for 'driving' (horse drawn) the battalion's small train of logistical transport comprising 'General Service' wagons for the reserve ammunition, water carts and field kitchens for each company, and a Maltese Cart for the officers' mess, as well as exercising some hacks for the battalion's field officers. It was a typical role for each battalions oldest soldiers, who would have found it more difficult to do the long marches on foot, but they also brought the necessary experience to get the logistics through, come-what-may. I think that the inscription on the card reads: What do you think of these 'chums' (an old expression for friends) taken while Jack was here on leave Jan 21st 1916. It might also say 'cards', but that would suggest more than one and the lettering is as you say indistinct. Edited 30 March , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameeuwsen Posted 30 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 30 March , 2020 Hello Pat The handwritten document is a file with 28 pages found and downloaded from Ancestry.uk Ik don't know of it is possible or allowed to uploaded this pages to this forum. Some of the info you mentioned is correct I have seen the term Holland on one of the pages and also some names and addresses. Regards, Jan Hello Frogsmile, Thanks for the info and the pictures, the girl on the foto is his neece. Regards, Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 30 March , 2020 Share Posted 30 March , 2020 I doubt if we can publish Ancestry material here in any bulk, Jan, but to clear up a point here's the reference to Holland. It shows that Dicks was taken prisoner on 23rd August 1914, wounded in his left thigh), and was interned in Holland on 29th December 1917. He was repatriated to the UK on 18th November 1918 on a ship whose name I can't read! "SS W..."? NB There should be an International Red Cross record for him as a PoW (beware, the search function is not very intuitive!". With that date of capture I'm guessing he was taken prisoner at Mons. Cheers, Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 30 March , 2020 Share Posted 30 March , 2020 Dicks as a surname is found by searching for Dick (singular). He is in the Middlesex Regiment batch. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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