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Mitter2k1

US Enlisted Collar Disks

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Mitter2k1

Here is my Riker Mount of US enlisted collar disks and this is just a very small sampling of what is actually out there. I will post a pic with all of them and then I will post 3 pics that tell what they are for the curious. As always if you have any questions, please ask. I will answer these to the best of my ability as some of the specifics are kind of confusing. This applies to numbering and placement of the said numbers.

Thanks,

Mike

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Mitter2k1

Pic 1.

1st Row- US regular Army Enlisted Collar Disks. These are the most common and were worn on the right collar of the uniform coat.

2nd Row- Infantry Co. D, Infantry Co. K, Infantry Machine gunner

3rd Row- Artillery, 1st Artillery Battery F, Ammo Train. The numbered disk could belong to a regular Army unit or a State Guard unit, I am not sure. I am actually still waiting on my book.

4th Row- Quartermaster, Next 2- Quartermaster Officer's Shirt sized collar insignia. These are smaller than the coat sized insignia that are commonly seen.

5th Row- These are not really insignia but I use them to fill the empty spots. The first button is a vegetable ivory button (breast size), the other 2 are the common blackened bronze, breast and pocket sized buttons.

Mike

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Mitter2k1

Pic 2.

Row 1- USNA- US National Army. This is 3 different variations on the same thing. Block Letter, Thick Script, Thin Script. These were also worn on the right collar of the coat.

Row 2- 2nd Infantry Co. E, 5th Infantry Co. D, 13th Infantry Co. H

Row 3- Ordnance, 2x Engineers

Mike

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Mitter2k1

Pic 3

Row 1- USNG US National Guard, US 1, US 30, US 61. The 3 numbered disks are for state units, not divisions. If someone knows for sure how this works please explain it in detail. These were also worn on the right side.

Row 2- 17th Infantry Co. C, 342nd Infantry Co. A. This regiment was a part of the 86th Division.,This last one is a equipment marking disk. These were used late or post war and are commonly seen on WWI field gear.

Row 3- Signal Corps, Medical Corps x2 and Medical Corps equipment disk.

Row 4- ROTC disk, Emergency Conservation Workers, Civilian Marksmanship Training Camp.

Mike

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Khaki

Great stuff Mike,

Very interesting to see, I note the variation in engineers badges, does one predate the other or was it due to manufacturers variations?

Thanks for sharing

khaki

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Mitter2k1

Great stuff Mike,

Very interesting to see, I note the variation in engineers badges, does one predate the other or was it due to manufacturers variations?

Thanks for sharing

khaki

Most of them are just manufacturer variations. The 2nd Infantry Disk is made from a white metal and painted brown. Most disks are made from bronze and blackened. There are some earlier disks that used a different font for the numbers that is apparent from the style used on these. If you study infantry insignia, the earlier ones used the rifle that was in service at the time. Post WWI to know uses the flintlock rifle. Insignia is the most interesting and confusing thing to get in to.

Mike

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4thGordons

Really nice selection and well displayed. I have quite deliberately prevented myself from buying these even when I have seen them going for a song because they are such a minefield of variations etc. of which I have no knowledge. The only ones I have are ones that came attached to uniforms.

Is that a purpose made display board (Riker Mount?) I have not seen those before....looks like a dangerously expensive thing to have, it would be very tempting to keep acquiring collar disks until it was full, then of course you would have a few left over so would need another one ...which would then need filling............

Chris

Edit: never mind I googled the Riker display case and found it...hmmmmmmm

Edited by 4thGordons

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Mitter2k1

Here are the few officers insignia's I have. Pic 1- USNA or US National Army. Pic 2- USNG or US National Guard. Pic 3- USNG and Infantry Co. B. Officers insignia were worn in pairs. There would be a US and a branch of service insignia on both sides of the collar. The 3rd pic is only half of a set and complete matching sets can be difficult to come by.

Thanks,

Mike

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4thGordons

Hi Mike

OK a few snaps of mine...as I said these are just ones that came on Tunics and I have no real knowledge of them.

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Sepoy

A US Engineer with his collar badges clearly visible.

Sepoy

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4thGordons

and a couple of officer ones:

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Mitter2k1

Thanks for adding these Chris. They are all very nice and I especially like the 144th disk. These are nice if you can find them on the loose but is even better when they are attached to the tunic. The Dental officer's insignia is great as well. These can be hard to come by at times and will cost you a pretty penny to replace. Once you get photos of them you can really see the slight manufacturers variations like the background texture and size of the rim. These disks, as common as they may seem, can be quite valuable. Basic disks like the US, USNA, USNG, USR and plain branch of service can be readily had though at a reasonable price. Some disks and officers insignia's however command a premium due to rarity. But enough of it is readily available for collecting. Just be sure the attaching nut is present.

Sepoy, thanks for posting this pic. It is interesting though that it appears this soldier polished the raised US and Engineer's castle on them. Great shot of him posing with the M1917 and Russell 10 pocket dismounted ammo belt with the bayonet attached .

Thank you guys for sharing. If anyone has any others please add them or even photos of them in use. Especially if you have any of the rare USMC collar disks.

Thanks,

Mike

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Mitter2k1

Ok Chris here is some info on your disks. Starting with the 144th. This one could be either Sea Coast Artillery or Field Artillery since it is a trench modified disk. The 54th disk is probably Sea Coast Artillery Company or Coastal Artillery. I wish I could be more specific on them as they are still confusing even with a book. But as a general rule as quoted from the Collar Disk Story (1907 - 1999), Field Artillery: Crossed cannons, muzzles upward and set low on the field. Coast Artillery: Crossed cannons, muzzles upward and set high on the field. Your US 12 disk is the 12th Regiment of the Regular Army. According to the book the script version of the USNA were issued after 15 Aug. 1917 and prior to 29 Dec. 1917. After that they switched to the block style US with NA superimposed over the top in a small box.

I hope you found this helpful as I am still lost with the whole Coastal and Field artillery issue. I need to sit down and read the book a couple of times to get a better understanding.

Thanks,

Mike

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4thGordons

Thanks Mike - that's good info to have.

I'm still waiting on that 1918 Tunic and will post pictures when it gets here.

Chris

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jwp2007

Hope you don't mind me jumping in here, I picked up this tunic button and collar disc/cap badge ? a few weeks ago, I did post it on WRF and opinion was the button is ww1 tunic button but opinion was split as to the other being a cap badge or collar disc, the disc is 1 1/2 inches diameter and was thought to be possibly between the wars, would value your input,

regards,

John.

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Mitter2k1

Glad you found that helpful Chris. I an looking forward to seeing it.

york16, you're correct that button is a WWI US uniform button. The other piece is what looks to be a WWII enlisted hat badge. It would not be a interwar hat device since it does not have a cross hatched background. If you look at the CMTC disk I posted above it has the design I am talking about. This appears to be a type III style of hat badge that was made close to or during WWII. I'll post a link that shows the difference in styles from each period. I hope that this helps.

Mike http://hglanham.tripod.com/metalinsignia/collardisk1.html

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jwp2007

Mike, thank you for your reply, most helpful and a great link for reference, all the best for 2014,

kind regards,

John.

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Mitter2k1

Not a problem. I'm glad I was able to help.

Mike

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jwp2007

Hope you don't mind me jumping in here, I picked up this tunic button and collar disc/cap badge ? a few weeks ago, I did post it on WRF and opinion was the button is ww1 tunic button but opinion was split as to the other being a cap badge or collar disc, the disc is 1 1/2 inches diameter and was thought to be possibly between the wars, would value your input,

regards,

John.

Just had it pointed out to me that the letter N in the word UNUM on my cap badge is back to front !, any thoughts on what this makes the badge much appreciated :unsure:

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Mitter2k1

I am sending you a pm now.

Thanks,

Mike

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Mitter2k1

Here are some misc. US insignias and ranks used by the Army. I'll start with the top left and ID them. If you have any questions please do ask. I attached these to this thread to keep it simple and not to create another thread.

USNA (US National Army) Officers Coat Insignia. Below that is a Pair USNG (National Guard) Officer Coat insignias, USR (Reserve) Officer coat insignias, Infantry Officer branch of service insignias,one denotes Co. B, Pair of Quartermaster shirt sized officer's insignias, and a 1st Lt. Shoulder sized bar.

Patches- Shell on disk-2nd class gunner for Coastal Artillery or Field Artillery, Corporal, Sergeant, 1st Sergeant, and Battalion Sgt. Major.

Crossed Cannons- Gun Pointer, Costal Artillery.

Crossed Flags-Signal Corps.

Crossed Hammers-Mechanic.

Crossed Swords-Cavalry.

Last is a USNA armband. These were given to the men to wear on the way to the training camps.

Thanks,

Mike

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4thGordons

Nice selection Mike

There seems to have been an interminable delay on my 1918 tunic (although I expect it this week) -- will post when/if it get here.

the USNA armband is really interesting - haven't seen these - do you have any photos in use?

Chris

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Mitter2k1

You are killing me with the tough ones Chris ;) I have seen one photo and unfortunately I am unable to locate it. I believe it was on a dealer site showing the armband being used but I cannot recall the specifics. They are readily available online and there are a number of different Draftee armbands out there. There is at least 2 or 3 of the USNA type that I can think of. Plus there is a U.S. Registered June 5, 1917 armband I have been trying to pick up for some time. All are related to the Draft I believe in 1917. On a similar note, have you seen or own any uniforms with a star on the lower right sleeve? These were given to the first volunteers for the draft. I want to say 10k or maybe 50k, I can't remember which. These seem to be pretty rare and I have only seen 2 offered for sale in the last year or so.

Mike

Edited by Mitter2k1

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Mitter2k1

Here are a few more to add to the thread. The USNA officer's insignia is a like new, matched pair that I am using to put together a uniform. The uniform is a M1912 cotton coat that did not have grommets sewn into the collar for collar disks. It has all the evidence of belonging to an officer with ghosts of collar insignias and rank on the shoulders. The next two are the Coastal Artillery and Engineers Officer's insignias. Then the Keystone 28th Division and 3rd Infantry Co. I came together. I am not sure when the Keystone would of been used. I am assuming just prior to WWI when they were still the Pennsylvania Army National Guard. They did not become divisional until 1917. And last up is four collar disks. The US and Artillery enlisted disks have raised surfaces that seem to protrude more than any others I have in my collection. The 334th Infantry Regiment, Co. K were created on August 5, 1917 and assigned to the 84th Division. They were later organized at Camp Zachary Taylor on August 25, 1917. They did not see any action during WWI and were only awarded a battle streamer without inscription. The last disk is a generic Infantry Co. I that could of been used by any Infantry regiment that had an "I" company.

Thanks for looking and as always if you have questions, please ask. I am always willing to share any information that I may not of listed here.

Mike

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Mitter2k1

That is cool. The state stuff can be very hard to come by at times.

Thanks for sharing,

Mike

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