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Remembered Today:

Cavdalar Deviation - Training?


CarylW

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In the 2nd Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment war diary, the entry for 14th November 1916 is 'Working party of 200 men on CAVDALAR DEVIATION -Training'

Would anyone have any idea what sort of training they would have been doing?

Caryl

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Caryl

I have found this diary on a website. Looking at in context - a works party - I am pretty sure that (the) Cavdalar Deviation is the location or geographical feature where they were working. I think the training bit may be part of it or perhaps was to take place after they had finished whatever job they had been tasked with.

TR

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Terry

Thanks for replying. Yes, it is definitely a location - all are capitalized as per usual in a war diary. I was just wondering what type of training they would have been doing in that particular location. Salonika is a whole new frontier for me and I'm on a very steep learning curve with regards to what might have happened on the Western Front with regards to training might not have been the case in Salonika with different terrain and conditions.

I'm researching the men of the 2nd Bn. East Yorkshire Regiment who died on active service. It was probably my website (blog page) where you've seen the diary entries.

http://carneyeyr.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/salonika.html

You'll be able to see why I asked the query if you scroll down to Pte Towse's details. It isn't complete yet but I'm getting there

Caryl

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Caryl

Yes, I did see your site although I didn't realise you were the owner. I think the clue lies in "working party", perhaps field defences, trench digging or wiring for instance.

TR

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Yes, that's probably it Terry. There is a fair bit about training in 'Under the Devil's eye'. Difficult to envisage exactly what the battalion might have been doing on that day without knowing the terrain of that particular location though - I thought someone might know something about it. Can't seem to find it on a map so far. I would invest in some maps of the region as it was then, if there were any, and many location names appear to have changed since then.

I read something about this being a difficult campaign for anyone to get their heads around without visiting the areas in person - how true.

I'll plod on but if anyone should happen to find Cavdalar deviation on a map, please let me know.

Found a website with old Macedonian village names. I'm wondering if they meant Chavdar now called Psomotopi?

http://giorgi10.tripod.com/id58.htm

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To put this into perspective which might lead to the location (I'm also wondering if it was a mistake in the war diary and it should be Cavdah/Chavdar)

Wyrall's history of the East Yorkshire Regiment has some detail of the battalion location after the 83rd Brigade's attack at Barakli Juma'a

'On the 3rd November (1916) the 2nd East Yorkshires were relieved and marched back to bivouacs in Gumus Dere*

*The official Despatches in dealing with the general situation, state that : "Under cover of patrol encounters, a defensive line was constructed from Jenimah, via Osman Kamila-Homondos-Jenikoj-Nevoljen-Cuculuk-Elisan-Barakli Juma'a-Haznatar to Alipsa on the Struma, and remained as such during the winter months

Also:

'There is little to record for the remainder of November with the exception of a move to the Jahjali area, where the East Yorkshires on the 28th and 29th, relieved Italian troops in the line Staros to Radile...'

Caryl

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There was a firing range at the village of Cavdelar see photo on this page http://www.kingsownmuseum.plus.com/gallerywwone004.htm

Thanks! So there was such a place then, albeit with a slight variation of spelling. Looking at some of the locations (which might as well be double-Dutch to me!) I can see why any officer writing a war diary for the Macedonian Campaign might end up slightly confused about the spelling.

Caryl

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Thanks again. I could do with spending a week or two in Kew looking at these

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?_q=salonika+map&_sd=&_ed=

It would be good to be able to buy a large OS old map of Salonika, spread it out on a table and examine it with a magnifying glass - the old way. There don't seem to be any available to purchase anywhere though (?)

Caryl

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Caryl,

Join the Salonika Campaign Society and buy their trench map CD, it contains 1;50000 and 1:20000 scale military maps for most of the Salonika theatre of war. One or two are missing but the Struma valley is well covered. I will have a look at the maps when I get home and see if I can find Cavdalar.

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I joined the Salonika Campaign Society a few weeks ago. I didn't realise that they had any trench maps for sale. Couldn't see any on their website and I was just too late for the September publication (although I see it's possible to buy back issues)

Thanks.

Caryl

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Thanks for that Gardenerbill - much appreciated. Definitely up in the hills! Where I can find the trench map CD's for sale from the Salonika Campaign Society? I've looked on every page of their website and I can't see them.

Caryl

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Caryl,

I wrote a letter enclosing a cheque (£40 for members) to Tim Mole the newsletter editor at the time and I received the DVD shortly after. I am not sure if Tim is still the right person to contact, I know some of the committee members have changed recently. There is a Salonika Campaign Society thread pinned in this sub forum, in there you will see posts by Alan Wakefield (avatar Gully Ravine) he is the chairman of the SCS perhaps if you direct message him he will be able to tell you if the dvd is still available and who to write to.

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Keith Edmonds replied to me back on October 3rd when I joined the society and he had 'Membership Secretary Salonika Campaign Society' in his signature. I'll drop him an e-mail and ask about the CD's. Thanks again

Caryl

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Caryl

Just to let you know that Tim Mole is still the person to contact re trench map DVDs. The SCS was recently handed another 5 maps, including a detailed plan of part of the British defences at Doiran (originally used at 66th Bde HQ in 1918). Tim is also engaged in digitising all copies of the original Mosquito magazine, the journal of the Salonika Reunion Association. These publications are a treasure trove of anecdotes and first-hand accounts by veterans.

ALAN

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Caryl,

I wrote a letter enclosing a cheque (£40 for members) to Tim Mole the newsletter editor at the time and I received the DVD shortly after. I am not sure if Tim is still the right person to contact, I know some of the committee members have changed recently. There is a Salonika Campaign Society thread pinned in this sub forum, in there you will see posts by Alan Wakefield (avatar Gully Ravine) he is the chairman of the SCS perhaps if you direct message him he will be able to tell you if the dvd is still available and who to write to.

Just to clarify - Alan Wakefield (ajwakefield on this forum) is the Chairman of the Salonika Campaign Society, I am the Membership Secretary (gully ravine). Full committee details (and much more) can be found at www.salonikacampaignsociety.org.uk . Well worth a visit if you haven't seen the recently revised format / content.

Regards

Keith

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Sorry Keith my mistake, Caryl has a good hunt aroung the web site and so have I but we couldn't find a reference to the trench map DVD, I am sure there used to be one on the old site!

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Hi Mark

Apologies not needed. I just posted for clarification (and a bit of cheap publicity for the SCS!!). I thought the DVDs had been added to the web site - bit of homework for the webmaster if not ... I'll check with him.

Keith

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  • 3 years later...

Just wondering if this CD is still available?

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