Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Driver Thomas Shaw service record


pjs100

Recommended Posts

Hello, this is my first post on GWF and hope to find information of my Grandfather Thomas Shaw's record in the Great War. I don't know his service No. and while I always understood he was a horse driver in the RFA a photograph I have suggests he was with The 100 Brigade Ammunition Column. I can definitely place him in Netley Hospital in 1916 and possibly convelesing at Summerdown camp in the same year. I can also certainly place him in Salonika with the 100 BAC in 1917 and possibly 1918.

I am unsure about Tom's earlier service and feel he enlisted around the start of the war and possiby served initially in France. I have photographs of another driver Frank Storer 45453 who was wounded 30/03/16 and died the following day to be buried in Lapugnoy Millitary Cemetery near Bethune. A minature portrait photograph of Frank has written on reverse "F Storer KIA in France 1915 . We were standing close together A.A shell" I think this may have been added some time after the war and would account for the incorrect year. I feel this may place Tom Shaw in France at that time.

I have photographs of Tom Shaw in Netley Hospital, in a group outside of a mess tent annoted "420 Road,100 Bde Amn Col, Salonica" and him with two others cleaning horse tack outside a tent. There's also a fragment of a photograph of what looks like a rough track with the following on the reverse:

-----Ridge

---420 Road

---28th 1918

----High

The photographs are in poor condition and I intend to have them restored. If they are recoverable I'll post at a later date.

Any help and advise as to where I can locate his service No. would. be appreciated as would information regarding the role and deployment of 100 Bge Amn Col in the Great War.

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Peter,

Do you have any more info on Thomas, where/when he was born, that sort of thing? It may help to narrow the search down there are a few Thomas Shaw's in the artillery. The only way I can think of to find his service number is to look in the medal card references on Ancestry or the National Archive website and if you're lucky his service/pension records may have survived, again viewable on Ancestry. 60% were destroyed in the Blitz mind so they may not exist anymore.

Gareth

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Gareth,

Thanks for the reply and tips, Tom was born and lived in Shildon Co. Durham all his life and would have been 21 when the war started. His middle name was Gill but I don't know if he used it for army records. When Tom died his medals and memorabilia were dispersed amongst his children, nobody wanted the photos so I ended up with them. I think the remaining siblings have passed on and I don't have contacts for their offspring. I haven't used Ancestry only Find My Past. Do you think Ancestry are better for war references?

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cheers Peter,

I will see if I can find anything. FMP and Ancestry both have their good and bad points, but Ancestry do have quite a bit of military records relating to the Great War, medal cards, service/pension records, silver war badge records. You can get medal references elsewhere and the service papers are only useful if they've survived!

Gareth

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Gareth

Thanks again for the info, did you find that on Ancestry? Although I don't know if Tom's middle name was used to enlist and don't recall it being said that he was a corporal. 219823 is somewhere to start. Is it possible to see all the Thomas Shaws RFA listed?. In the photos I have there is no sign of rank on his uniform although in the working one he's with two other soldiers and his shirt sleeves are rolled up.

Thanks again for your help it's much appreciated.

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

The medal index cards are on Ancestry which if you don't have a subscription can be viewed at your local library or by the free trial. They can also be downloaded for £3.36 from the National Archives.

Driver 45386 Thomas Shaw was in the RFA and entered theatre (France) the same day as 45453 Frank Storer i.e. 25th August 1915.

The trick now is to find the service record of a soldier with a similar numbers to try and get some dates. He did not go to France with the 100 Bde Amm. Clmn. and suspect he was posted there after being wounded on the Western Front, i.e. to Netley Hospital, when fit returned to Depot and posted out to Salonica from there.

The TNA reference for the above soldier is http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D5113158 but I'd save your money for now as it doesn't tell you much and there is no guarantee this is your man.

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ken,

The man you've found seems a likely candidate. Shame that artillery soldiers are so difficult to track down! All I know of my grandad was he was RFA and in Egypt in 1918! No idea who with or when he got there.

Another option Peter is to go to the National Archive and look at War Diaries (if they exist) for units you know Tom to have been a member of. They may mention him but might not.

Gareth

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Ken

The numbers you give for Tom Shaw and his pal Frank Storer are too close forit not be my Grandfather. The picture he has with 100 bge amn Col written on it is in Salonika.

So possible timeline:

Enlisted 1914 (which I think he did)

Deployed to France August 25th 1915 as per your find

In France 31-3-1916 When Frank Storer was killed.

In Netley Millitary hospital 1916 (no date) The photograph I have of him in a hospital bed, has, written on the back Netley Hosp 1916 "sick" rather than wounded.

1916/1917 Transfered to Salonica. Photograph titled 100 Bge Amn Col .has that year on it There is also the working group picture with the same date.

1918 partial photo with 1918 is also of Salonika.

I've also looked closely at a very tattered photo which is hard to read, with the writing very faded with dates from 1914 - 1919 and I'm wondering whether this was his length of service?

Could you tell me if Driver P Pirie and William Cook also went to France on the 25th of August 1915 as Tom kept photographs of both? It's good to think they went as pals and looked out for each other.

Again as with Gareth thank you very much for your help I have struggled so far without finding very much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gareth

I hope you have luck in your quest to find your Granddad's service records, the help you and Ken have given is beyond belief and I trust you benefit in the same way. I'm a complete beginner with family/war research but if I can help in tracing your relative I'd be happy to.

On Tom Shaw's case I've noticed that the 22nd division deployed to France in September 1915 and wonder whether Gfather was part of that. The 22nd later went to Salonika with Divisional Artillery C (100)? Brigade retaining their ammunition column. There's a few date discrepancies to think about but the war diary route might answer those questions

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Driver Peter Pirie, RFA 109162, is this the one you're after? No date of entry to theatre which suggests post-1916 but there may be another medal card thats missing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Peter!

Cross posting!! I think my grandad was sent to one of the Wessex Divisions in India sometime in 1917 from a reserve unit near Portsmouth having joined in early 1915. From there again I think he went to the 75th Division in Egypt but absolutely no evidence to back this up!

On the William Cook front, there are a lot of candidates but none with a similar service number.

Regards,

Gareth

PS I've just done a search for 100 Brigade and came up with this http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=167776

may be worth doing a search on the forum (top right of page)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

CWGC shows Frank Storer was attached to '103rd Brigade HQ'

103rd Brigade RFA went to France as part of 23rd Division which deployed to France 21-26 August 1915 see LLT http://www.1914-1918.net/23div.htm

[LLT = Long Long Trail link top right the parent site and invaluable for researching a soldier of the Great War]

The war diary for the 103rd Brigade RFA is at the TNA but has not been digitised.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C7353229

A brief account of their time in France (probably from the diary) is here http://www.wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/rfaCIIIBrigade.php

Netley Hospital specialised in cases of 'shell shock' perhaps this is what Thomas meant by 'sick' you'll note from the above they were subject to heavy shelling in March and a friend had died alongside him. It may offer an explanation as to his subsequent posting which was a 'quieter' theatre (although no less arduous).

A Driver 53281 William Cook is in the SWB Rolls enlisted 11.11.1914. but he went to France 11.3.1915 he was discharged due to sickness in 1918 - so it's a bit speculative

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many thanks for the details Ken. It certainly looks as if Tom was with the 23rd Division and in action around Alblain - St - Nazaire. Without seeing medical records I can't confirm his illness and can't recall it or his millitary service ever being discussed within the family. The only references I have are the photograph of a communal ward (hut), with patients in bed, at Netley and an old newspaper clipping referring to Summerdown convelescent camp. It could well be as you suggest that he was sent to Salonika as a "kindness" but I wasn't aware that the army at the time made such dispensations. If it was the case it certainly goes against some of the brutal imagery we see when the treatment of rank and file in the Great War is dramatised. Although as you suggest the Salonika campaign had its own hardships.

The posting to Salonika must have been as a replacement to 100 Bge Amn Col? His original 103 brigade looks to have still been in France at the time he was transfered.

William Cook's war time photographs show him with a medal, a cross, which I don't think is for service, it's in both shots dated December 1918. Would that help identify him?.

Thanks again for the marvellous information which has filled in many gaps in my understanding of the Great War and my Grandfather.

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Gareth

The lack of a paper trail must make your search frustrating. I know my wife, who has gone further into her ancestry than I have, has tried for years to clarify a marraige of a direct female antecedent at age 16 and the fact that the girl's husband then married her sister 2 years later. there's no death cert or anything. She's even speculating that the first wife ran off to the US from Cornwall where she lived. That's with the benefit of census and BDMs so if your Granddad's service records were destroyed in the blitz it would be even more difficult.

As I said to Ken my Granddad's war service wasn't mentioned in the family other than the fact he'd served, although he did have a piece of trench art in the shape of a small coal scuttle which was used as a sugar bowl. This was made from a brass shell case and together with a framed tapestry of the RFA crest and motto was the only evidence of that time. The info which you and Ken have kindly provided has been invaluable and provides a snap shot of Tom's young life.

Thanks for the ppm and the links.

Peter Pirie 109162 could be the one, it's an unusual name, not like Shaw! I've written to the address on the back of the card asking if the present occupiers of the farm recollect the Pirie family. The farm has a history of whisky making and is next to Cardhu distillery so If I hit lucky I could have a pleasant few days in Scotland.

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

I don't think you can regard his posting to Salonika as a 'kindness' (even in quotes!).

It's possible his medical category was downgraded, or as Salonika was a theatre where campaigning was more limited there was a break from the almost incessant 'thunder of the guns' on the Western Front. I've seen the reverse for example where a soldier was repatriated from Salonika suffering from malaria and his papers were marked 'for duty in France and Flanders only', as the disease was not endemic as it was in other theatres.

We don't know what his job was in France but as a driver he could have been part of a gun crew. The RFA almost exclusively used the 18 pounder field gun which had a crew of ten, and was drawn by six horses with a driver on each pair.

To the Army he was 'a resource' and was sent where he could make the best and most valuable contribution and this was 100 Bde Ammunition Column, where although still part of a Brigade he was less exposed than in a Battery, but it could still be a hazardous job.

Summerdown Camp was here in Eastbourne where it is being commemorated as a major local Centenary project.

As for William Cook's medal I can't think of a British decoration awarded to ORs in the shape of a cross, other than the VC of course, but many foreign decorations were awarded and these are listed in the London Gazette. Posting the photo might help a medal expert on the forum identify it.

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...