Sgt 24095 Alexander Carlile 2nd Bat Lancashire Fusiliers

[Malc Knowles]

I am researching the above who is a family member.

He was Killed in Action 12th October 1916.

Does anyone have the war diary for the day so we can have some idea what he was involved in please.

It is also indicated that he was with the Sherwoods.

I have his Medal index card but would like some help in understanding it please.

Many thanks

Malc Knowles

[CROONAERT]

Does anyone have the war diary for the day so we can have some idea what he was involved in please.

It's available for download in its entirety from the National Archives for just £3.36....http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C4554658

Dave

[Stephen Nulty]

The MIC suggests a transfer from the Notts & Derby to LF at some point, but his medals were issued by N&D.

I don't have the diary, but the image below shows the movements of 2/LF leading up to the date of his death. Hope this helps.

[Blackblue]

From the LF history. They were involved in the 'Battle of Le Transloy Ridges' between 1 and 18 October. On 12 October they conducted an attack with the objective part of a ridge 1500 yards behind the front line. The Bn suffered very heavy casualties from German machine gun fire. Casualties 4 officer and 62 ORs killed, 6 officers and 162 ORs wounded, and 1 officer and 100 ORs missing.

Rgds

Tim

[Blackblue]

Incidentally my GF was 24068. Men around this number were allocated as LF reinforcements from a variety of Corps and regiment. Many went to Gallipoli towards the end of 1915, my GF to the 9th Bn in September 1915. My GF's group were all former Cavalry from the 5th Reserve Regt. I know that a group of Sherwood Foresters followed them.

The notations on his Medal Index Card mean he was entitled to the British War Medal and Victory Medal. As he did not get a Star he first served OS after 31 December 1915. The notation regarding his Victory Medal (VM) and Kings Regulations (1912) paragraph 1743 means it was unclaimed after ten years so was returned to the ordnance stores to be broken up.

Rgds

Tim

[Malc Knowles]

Thank you all for the replies I much appreciate your time.

After I posted this yesterday I decided to check in the local Library where the local paper the Derbyshire Times is on microfiche. Here is what I found.

I have transcribed it as it is not easy yo read.

'Another Whittington soldier to fall in the
service of his country is Sergeant Alex Carlile
of the Sherwood Foresters, whose home was at
Old Whittington. The sad news was sent by the
Chaplain, who stated that a wounded soldier
named Broderick had asked him to send home
some photos and letter which he had taken
from Carliles body before internment. it appears
that Broderick was near Carlile when he was killed
along with four others by a shell.Before the war
Carlile worked at the Grassmoor Collieries
and he joined the Sherwoods in November 1914
but later on was transferred to the
Lancashire Fusiliers. He had seen much heavy
fighting and his last furough was in July. A sad
incident in connection with this visit was to find
that his wife had been buried , she having been ill
some time previously. In local football circles
the deceased was well known, and was a popular
playing member of the Old Whittington Mutuals Club.

From information just to hand, Corporal F Carlile
of the Sherwood Foresters is amongst the latest wounded
Whittington men. At present he is lying in
hospital in Boulogne.He took part in the landing of
Surla Bay and stayed until the evacuation took place.
from here he was sent to Egypt and afterwards to France
He resided with his parents in Newbridge Lane.Old Whittington.'

With this information I was beginning to doubt if the incident above was with the Sherwood's or the Lancashire's but I have searched the medal index for Broderick

and the only one is with the Lancs Andrew J Broderick LF Labour Group numbers 2621 and 219880. No Brodericks are with the Sherwoods as far as I can see.

[Blackblue]

Great finds Malc. The Suvla Bay reference is interesting as the landing was August 1915 and his MIC suggests he first served OS after the start of 1916. Maybe there is another MIC somewhere, his 1914/15 was missed. Other possibility is that newspaper story may not be accurate.

Oops just see Suvla refers to F Carlile!

Tim

[Blackblue]

13016 SGT Fred Carlile, 9th Notts and Derby. Was awarded a DCM. Got to Gallipoli 31/12/15 so Suvla landings not likely.

[Malc Knowles]

Thanks Tim

I am obliged to you.

Malc

[stevem49]

13016 SGT Fred Carlile, 9th Notts and Derby. Was awarded a DCM. Got to Gallipoli 31/12/15 so Suvla landings not likely.

He would have arrived at Suvla before 31.12.15 - The mic gave the date of 31/12/1915 for all men who did not arrive with battalion in July.

Alex -:

His N&D number 18445 would have him enlisting around 4/11/1914. I cannot find him on the N&D medal rolls but 18444 went to 2nd and then 10th battalions, whilst 18446 went to 11th battalion N&D.

Steve M

[Blackblue]

Interesting mate. Any idea why? Only this Bn?

[stevem49]

I think that a blanket date was decided on as more men kept being fed into the peninsula. I have men who joined in late August up to November who had 'prior to 31/12/1915.

There is one Broderick listed in N&D - 24010 George Broderick, later Cameron Highlanders - So he must have been LF

11 Carlile in N&D during WW1

Steve

[Blackblue]

Cheers mate. I have researched quite a few LF men and have never seen the practice. 9th LF men who landed at Suvla usually have the correct embarkation dates on the MIC and men after that their correct reinforcement dates.

[stevem49]

My wife's Grandfather served in 11th LF and won DCM on the Somme in September 1916. We have a lovely illuminated scroll given by the local council to him. Sadly no medals! (except for his miniature's)

Steve

[Malc Knowles]

Chaps I am a little confused. I know its my fault with two Carliles on two forums and now Fred is spilling over from one to the other. Are we happy that Alexander was with the Lancashire Fusiliers when he met his death or was it the Sherwoods ?

Malc

[BRONNO]

Yes, Alex was killed with the Lancashire Fusiliers. BRONNO.

[Blackblue]

Apologies Malc. I assume they are related? If so its a pretty significant thing to have a relative awarded DCM. The next bravery award down from the VC for enlisted men.

[stevem49]

Sorry - should have put 'so Alex must have been LF'

Steve