fitz_merc Posted 19 November , 2013 Share Posted 19 November , 2013 Who made the decision to replace Jewish crosses with stones as at Fricourt? Is this not rather strange as this is a World War One cemetery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 19 November , 2013 Share Posted 19 November , 2013 I do not understand the question can you clarify? Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 19 November , 2013 Share Posted 19 November , 2013 ....me neither: picture taken by andalucia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 19 November , 2013 Share Posted 19 November , 2013 Any decision would be taken by the German War Graves Commission and presumably if any Jewish graves had been initially incorrectly marked marked with a cross this would have been rectified in 1977 when all the wooden crosses were replaced with metal ones. I fail to see what it being a WW1 cemetery has to do with anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 19 November , 2013 Share Posted 19 November , 2013 Is this not rather strange.......? No. Why would one expect any organisation to knowingly mark the grave of a Jewish soldier with a Christian cross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 19 November , 2013 Share Posted 19 November , 2013 Who made the decision to replace Jewish crosses with stones as at Fricourt? Is this not rather strange as this is a World War One cemetery? What is a "Jewish Cross" ? It seems a contradiction in term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc2 Posted 19 November , 2013 Share Posted 19 November , 2013 I suspect the original poster was referring to the fact that he would have expected the "Star of David" to be left off of WW2 graves (Nazi Anti-Semitism), but did not expect to see it done in WW1 graves. I have no idea what's at Fricourt, since I haven't been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 19 November , 2013 Share Posted 19 November , 2013 Perhaps we need to hear from the Original Poster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 19 November , 2013 Share Posted 19 November , 2013 I have been told that during WW2 many / all Jewish markers were removed from WW1 cemeteries on the Western Front, by the Germans. That was from a fairly well placed source, but I have never seen authoritative confirmation or denial. Can anybody address that ? As for the OP in this topic - I'm mystified as to what the question / point actually is Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksdad Posted 20 November , 2013 Share Posted 20 November , 2013 I can't wait to find out what a Jewish cross looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksdad Posted 20 November , 2013 Share Posted 20 November , 2013 I suspect the original poster was referring to the fact that he would have expected the "Star of David" to be left off of WW2 graves (Nazi Anti-Semitism), but did not expect to see it done in WW1 graves. I have no idea what's at Fricourt, since I haven't been there. Umm - Doc2 - But that was probably because there weren't very many Jewish people fighting in the German Army in WW2... Oh what the heck --- I'm going to have a guess as well - did, said, original poster mean to say: "Who made the decision to mark Jewish graves with stones rather than crosses" -- ? Then said original answer should be: The CWGC and German equivalent graves commission thought it was appropriate to mark Christian graves with a Cross and Jewish graves with a Star of David and Muslim graves with a crescent moon. If I remember correctly the CWGC made a decision to use only these three religious symbols on the headstones. all other faiths are left blank. The German graves commission (proper name escapes me) decided to use crosses rather than headstones as the marker, like the French and Americans. They defaulted to headstones therefore for the Jewish faith marked with an inscribed Star. The Americans defaulted to a Star of David on a stand, I am not sure what the French did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 20 November , 2013 Share Posted 20 November , 2013 The German graves commission (proper name escapes me) decided to use crosses rather than headstones as the marker, like the French and Americans. They defaulted to headstones therefore for the Jewish faith marked with an inscribed Star. The Americans defaulted to a Star of David on a stand, I am not sure what the French did? Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge – VDK French used a rounded top headstone marked with Star of David for Jewish burials, and the distinctively shaped "Horseshoe Arch" stone for their Muslim burials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksdad Posted 20 November , 2013 Share Posted 20 November , 2013 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 20 November , 2013 Share Posted 20 November , 2013 Then said original answer should be: The CWGC and German equivalent graves commission thought it was appropriate to mark Christian graves with a Cross and Jewish graves with a Star of David and Muslim graves with a crescent moon. If I remember correctly the CWGC made a decision to use only these three religious symbols on the headstones. all other faiths are left blank. I have not seen any CWGC headstones with a crescent moon, but I HAVE seen some with a Buddhist symbol. Muslim, Sikh and Hindu headstones have an inscription in their own cultural writings, not to mention the Chinese Labour Corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 20 November , 2013 Share Posted 20 November , 2013 not to mention the Chinese Labour Corps. I know you said not to mention - but Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 20 November , 2013 Share Posted 20 November , 2013 Well since you have mentioned the Chinese Brandhoek New War Cemetery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted 20 November , 2013 Share Posted 20 November , 2013 In case anyone is interested, Here are the details of the CLC Brandhoek casualty above: Wang Hsi. 王喜 Wáng Xǐ of 天津縣 Tiānjīn Xiàn. 33996, 78th Coy. †6th (medal roll = 16th) August 1919. Transferred from Wervicq German Cemetery (Extension) E. in July 1926. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitz_merc Posted 13 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2014 Sorry i meant Jewish graves not crosses As I understand it the Jewish graves were not marked with a stone until the 1970's. At first all German graves were marked witha wooden cross irrespective of religion- is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 13 May , 2014 Share Posted 13 May , 2014 I have been told that during WW2 many / all Jewish markers were removed from WW1 cemeteries on the Western Front, by the Germans. That was from a fairly well placed source, but I have never seen authoritative confirmation or denial. Can anybody address that ? As for the OP in this topic - I'm mystified as to what the question / point actually is Tom The Nazis even left most of the century-old Jewish cemeteries in Germany untouched (you can visit them still today in a lot of cities), so I can't imagine why they would do much about WWI graves... As far as I know there wasn't even a different grave marker for Jewish WWI soldiers on the cemeteries in France and Belgium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 13 May , 2014 Share Posted 13 May , 2014 Whether or not the Nazis touched the WW1 Jewish graves depended on the local commander. I have come across cemeteries where the locals say that the local commander told the SS or whoever to go.......... when they wanted to rip up the gravestones, and have heard of others where it happened. It's just like the French and British cemeteries where local commanders would send defaulters to mow the grass, etc or would lend equipment to locals or order that they be left without care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 14 May , 2014 Share Posted 14 May , 2014 The Nazis even left most of the century-old Jewish cemeteries in Germany untouched (you can visit them still today in a lot of cities), so I can't imagine why they would do much about WWI graves... As far as I know there wasn't even a different grave marker for Jewish WWI soldiers on the cemeteries in France and Belgium. If you search the www using keywords such as graves destroyed Jewish ww2 you will find a sizeable amount of relevant and seemingly authenticated evidence for the destruction of Jewish civilian graves during WW2 - graves destroyed by Germans - my post referred to destruction by Germans, not specifically members of the National Socialist party. My post also referred to graves on the Western Front - ie WW1 German-Jewish soldier's graves. With regards to the markers, I don't know specifically what kind of markers were in use in German WW1 war cemeteries at the time of WW2, but names such as Mendel, Reiss, Marks, and Goldberg (etc etc etc) would surely have been sufficient clue for all but the thickest Boche soldier ? Back to the question in # 9 then > "I have been told that during WW2 many / all Jewish markers were removed from WW1 cemeteries on the Western Front, by the Germans. That was from a fairly well placed source, but I have never seen authoritative confirmation or denial. Can anybody address that ?" (Address it without resorting to the "IMHO" type of answer which seems to be becoming more and more prevalent here). Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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