1911 Census Records Royal Navy in ENGLAND

[Black Sapper]

Okay guys - trust that someone will find this useful?

Big file for posting so had to do it in three parts (also posted in the documents repository forum with my Army Lists for 1911 Census)

Just hope that I haven't missed too many ships or naval places?

Pages 1 to 22 from 1911 Royal Navy Census England.pdf

1911 Census Royal Navy in ENGLAND Part 2

Pages 23 to 46 from 1911 Royal Navy Census England.pdf

1911 Census Royal Navy ENGLAND Part 3

Pages 47 to 62 from 1911 Royal Navy Census England.pdf

[Black Sapper]

Managed to fill in a bit more 1911 Census information - this time for WALES

(Shame that you still have to be a member of Ancestry to access the links, but ........?) Smeone may find this useful?

1911 Royal Navy Census Wales.pdf

[Black Sapper]

Just finished the Ireland 1911 Census list for Royal Navy

1911 Royal Navy Census Ireland.pdf

[Keith_history_buff]

This has been very useful for some research that I have been doing, on some of the crew of HMS Caroline. 

I was looking at a man who was on HMS Skirmisher on the 1911 Census. The handwriting is atrocious, and it appears that nobody at Ancestry has transcribed this whatsoever. When the images are accessed via brute force, there are no transcripts that are enabled to appear. This, coupled with a lack of results on several searches, has led me to believe it has not been transcribed.

I had been hoping to find ratings on both HMS Brittania (Home Fleet battleship) (K5540 Tugwell, 283596 Sims) and HMS Renown (battleship) (K10197 Reynolds, K10588 Johnston), but I could not find these ships on the 1911 census, even though it appears both were based in the UK. 

[Keith_history_buff]

Goodness only knows why Ancestry have omitted any indexing for HMS Skirmisher. yet FMP have.

With regard to 
283596 Herbert George Sims, born at Bitterne, Hampshire on 17 May 1878
K5540 Henry Lewis Feast Tugwell, born at Battersea, London on 18 September 1891

I had wondered why they, and the rest of HMS Brittania's crew were not appearing on the England and Wales Census of 2 April 1911.

Now I know why. having seen the ship's log.

I am now wondering whether they, and the rest of HMS Brittania's crew would bet appearing on the Scotland Census of 2 April 1911, at Cromarty.

 

Edited 31 March , 2022 by Keith_history_buff
EDIT: misaligned image

[Tawhiri]

45 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

I am now wondering whether they, and the rest of HMS Brittania's crew would bet appearing on the Scotland Census of 2 April 1911, at Cromarty.

Close, Herbert George Sims shows up under Shipping on ScotlandsPeople:

SIMS

HERBERT G

1911

M

32

902/S 36/ 14

Shipping - Royal Navy

Shipping

As does Henry Tugwell:

TUGWELL

HENRY L F

1911

M

19

902/S 36/ 17

Shipping - Royal Navy

Shipping

Would be nice to know how the reference numbers work since you would expect them to be the same if they were on the same ship.

Have seen something similar when looking for a sailor on a ship known to be sailing from a Scottish port and wondering why he wasn't found in the Scotland census. Turns out that the ship had left a Scottish port several days before the census date, was at sea on the actual date, and the first port of call after the census date was in England where the census form was handed in. End result was that the census form was included in the England census returns, not the Scotland returns.

Edited 31 March , 2022 by Tawhiri

[Keith_history_buff]

Well, well. Two answers to two questions on the same day.

Many thanks to you for having taken the time to answer my recent question. It does seem weird they do not have exactly the same reference number. 

I wonder if there will be a large number of ratings on the 1921 Scotland Census when it is released later this year? I do think of the Grand Fleet massed at Scapa Flow in 1918, but there were probably less vessels there in 1921. 

[Tawhiri]

There is a separate registration district called Shipping - Royal Navy when searching census returns on ScotlandsPeople so it should be relatively easy to identify all Royal Navy personnel who were in Scottish waters on the date of the census, or were on a ship at sea on the date of the census that subsequently arrived in Scotland. I did have a quick look for your two missing ratings from HMS Renown, Hugh Percy Johnston and William Charles Reynolds, on the off-chance that HMS Renown was in the same waters on 2 April 1911, but while there are four individuals named Reynolds, and another four named Johnston showing in the Shipping - Royal Navy returns for the 1911 Scotland census, none of these are a match for your two missing ratings.

[Keith_history_buff]

I was mistaken, as a result of the inferior indexing by Ancestry.

Reynolds does appear on board HMS Renown, moored off Portsmouth. Johnston is having a run ashore, and spent the night staying at Mrs Esther Munday's dining rooms, 161 Queen Street, Portsea. There are 24 persons on the census return for this establishment, formerly listed as refreshment rooms in the 1898 edition of Kelly's Directory, under different management.

[seaJane]

2 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said:

Brittania's

Keith, apologies if I am overstepping the line on this, but - could your spelling Brittania be failing to pick up entries for the correct spelling, Britannia?

Best wishes,

sJ

[Tawhiri]

In this case I think the ship's log is showing that HMS Britannia was moored at what looks like number 3 berth Cromarty on the night of 2 April 1911, and this is reflected in the fact that Keith's two missing ratings show up in the 1911 Scotland census in the Shipping - Royal Navy census returns.

[seaJane]

Ah, right, makes sense. Apologies, Keith.

[Keith_history_buff]

HMS Hindustan is another ship that is not on the England & Wales census. It is also at Cromarty. (Source: Ship's log, archive reference ADM 53/21985) It appears that the Britannia and the Hindustan were both at Portland in March 1911 so may well have sailed together.

HMS Pathfinder is not on the list. Her ship's log tells us she is moored in Kilbride Bay, Argyll, to the north of Ardlamont Point. (Source: Ship's log, archive reference ADM 53/24708)

HMS Cormorant was a surprise. I had expected to see her moored in Scottish waters. In fact, she was moored at Gibraltar, yet does not appear to have a return with the other Gibraltar ships. Her captain, Charles Tuthill Borrett, has a suitably unique name for searches, but there is no trace of him or the rest of the crew on the 1911 Census.
 

[Tawhiri]

According to ScotlandsPeople there are 8141 individuals who show up under the heading Shipping - Royal Navy in the 1911 Scotland Census. Unfortunately the ScotlandsPeople search engine only returns 25 names at a time, but you could potentially copy and paste the results from 326 pages of results into an Excel spreadsheet and then sort them by the reference number to try and identify groupings of men. Although in theory you can do this on ScotlandsPeople, my experience is that the ordering on ScotlandsPeople doesn't always work as you would expect it to. Searching the 1901 census returns brings up 1661 individuals in the Shipping - Royal Navy category, there are 224 individuals in the 1891 census, and 927 in the 1881 census, which is the first year that returns results in this category.

Edited 3 April , 2022 by Tawhiri

[Keith_history_buff]

There's only one piece of information that eludes me, and that is the location of HMS Blake. 
 

Quote

Home Fleet Vessel, at Sea,
Lat:
50.35N,
Long:
0.30W

It is beyond my comprehension as to how you plot that on a map, to determine the location.

[Tawhiri]

Google Maps says it's in the middle of the English Channel, about a third of the way between the Sussex coastline and France

https://www.google.com/maps/place/50°21'00.0"N+0°18'00.0"W/@50.2172156,-0.8808624,8.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x7c6082646e4a0383!8m2!3d50.35!4d-0.3

[Keith_history_buff]

A picture paints a thousand words. Thanks for getting this plotted, and then posting it on here, greatly appreciated!

[Keith_history_buff]

One of the WW1 veterans I was looking into was on HMS Clio at the time of the 1911 Census. I did struggle to determine where he was. The ship log was very useful in this regard.

During March 1911, Clio was in Shanghai. From 29 March to 30 March, she sailed from Shanghai to Nimrod Sound. She remained here until 4 April, when she set sail for Wusong, on 10 April she sailed to Kinkiang, and on 17 April she headed to Hankou (now part of Wuhan), On 12 May 1911 she had returned to Shanghai.

The following site gave me a bit more information as to the location of Nimrod Sound relative to the city of Ningbo.
https://geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-2663942&fid=1228&c=china



 

 

 

 

 

Edited 5 April , 2022 by Keith_history_buff
Image alignment issue

[Keith_history_buff]

[Keith_history_buff]

HMS Vulcan was a submarine depot ship before, during and after WW1. I was unable to find her on the England and Wales 1911 Census, within the Royal Navy returns.
http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs/index.php/H.M.S._Vulcan_(1889)

The ship's log, archive reference ADM 53/31885, has her at Dundee on 2 April 1911, so she too will appear on the 1911 Scotland census. The log has her at Dundee from 27 January 1911 onwards, and was there up to and including the last entry of 14 June 1911. Sources elsewhere suggest she was there in 1913.