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Remembered Today:

Joseph Ogborn Royal Fusiliers - Died of Wounds Loos


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I am researching one of my ancestors 12197 Corporal Joseph Ogborn Royal Fusiliers (also spelt Ogburn) who died of wounds and is buried in Noeux-Les-Mines Communal Cemetery.

Joseph initially joined the Royal Fusiliers 23 May 1906 for 6 years as per his attestation of the Militia documents

In 1911 Census Joseph was with 2nd Royal Fusiliers in India

Joseph I guess must have then been a reservist and was then mobilised and on his medal card index his date of entry to France is 13/8/14 and it lists he was with 4th RF and must have been at Mons.

01/08/15 Joseph got married to Harriet Eliza Jones his address on marriage certificate is Duke of York's School Dover

13/08/15 Joseph writes his will that was in his Army Service Book - leaving his property and effects to his wife.

01/10/15 Joseph died of wounds and buried at Noeux-Les-Mines Communal Cemetery whilst serving with 8th Royal Fusiliers.

I have the diary of 8th Royal Fusiliers and 30/09/15 (1 other rank killed) 01/10/15 (1 man killed and 8 wounded) they relieved the Irish Guards in the Battle of Loos taking over sector from Gun Trench to Hulluch Quarries under heavy artillery fire.

I am trying to pin point when Joseph was wounded. I presume that he could have been wounded on 30/09/15 or 01/10/15 when they relieved the Irish Guards and then have been taken to Noeux-Les-Mines dressing station where he died? Do you know if this was possible in this timeframe for him to have been taken there or is there a possibility he was wounded well before 30/09/15 - 01/10/15 and stayed in Noeux-Les-Mines dressing station as his wounds where serve? Was Noeux-Les-Mines dressing station just a temporary place where they dressed the soldiers wounds before they where quickly moved on to the hospitals further away from the firing line? If so he would have been wounded on a date close to his death? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Malcolm

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How much time does your War Diary cover? I believe that 3 Division, of which 8 RF were part, had a role in a diversionary attack,the second in a few months, at Bellewaarde at the time of the start of the Battle of Loos,and your man could equally have been wounded then,though if he did there would have been time to move him on to a CCS which didn't seem to occur,so it is possible that he was wounded around the 30th. The problem with trying to identify when a wounding occurs,particularly at a time of high activity,is exacerbated by two things, names don't appear in the war diary for probably several entries and the absence of a service record which will often show the date of wounding and where a soldier was treated and succumbed to wounds.

The chain of moving a casualty can be firstly through a Field Ambulance,there were three of these with 3 Division,and then on to a Casualty Clearing Station. In time a soldier would then be moved on to a hospital well back from the front lines and often on the coast. Your subject evidently didn't move far from the place of wounding.

I now see on the CWGC website that the cemetery,at that time,was used only by units and field ambulances. CCSs came to this area later.

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I have the entire 8 RF war diary as I purchased and downloaded it from National Archives. Joseph's Army Service Records don't exist so can't get any clues there. Not sure why he got transferred to 8 RF from 4 RF, I guess he must have been wounded or sick and when he recovered went to 8 RF? I did not spot that at the time the cemetery was only used by units and field ambulances so thanks this is quite a good clue. I presume that Joseph was alive and well on 13/08/13 when he wrote his will. From the diary I have listed the following casualties for this period and will have to have a look at the action at Bellewaarde.

13/08/15 - one man killed by rifle bullet
14/08/15 - one man wounded by rifle bullets
15/08/15 - one man died of wound received 14/08/18
18/08/15 - one man killed and one wounded by rifle bullet
22/08/15 - one man wounded of 8RF and one wounded and one man killed 10RF
24/08/15 - one man killed and one sergeant wounded by rifle bullets
25/08/15 - one man killed by bullet
1/09/15 McMan died of wounds received 31/08/15
5/09/15 5- Lt Hanna wounded and his Corporal killed
10/9/15 - one man accidentally shoot whilst on MG practice
14/09/15 - four men slightly wounded by shell otherwise no casualties - Does not sound serious probably just patched up and put back in the line?
30/09/15 - Few men wounded by rifle bullets on the way to trenches......Relief finally completed by 3.15am 1.10.15. 1 other? rank killed (I think it says other?)
01/10/15 - 1 man killed 8 wounded
I presume then if Joseph did not move far when he was wounded and he died on 1st Oct 1915 then he must have been wounded 30/09/15 - 01/10/15. If he was wounded early to mid September he would have probably been moved to a hospital well back from the front? Assuming that all wounded entries where noted in the diary? I appreciate your help as it is good to bounce ideas with more experienced researches than myself just being a novice. Thanks
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Yes,your mail and additional info point towards a wounding around the time of his death,so you can discount Bellewaarde. The Field Ambulance (s) Diary (ies) are not specific about the casualties they receive,merely numbers in and out. Whilst a FA will be notionally supporting a particular Brigade (3 FAs to 3 Brigades of the Division) at times of necessity and opportunity they will deal with whatever is brought to them so you can't really say that this FA dealt with all that Brigade's casualties. So if you are thinking to look at the FA War Diaries you have three to look at. At least it should show if soldiers died in their care on a given day.

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Just realised that I have misidentified the Division ! Forget Bellewaarde,the correct Division, 12 (Eastern), did not start the Battle of Loos but arrived as you say later in the month.

I was going to identify the Field Ambulances War Diaries for you,which is when I realised my error.

36 Field Ambulance diary ref is WO95/1843/1; 37 is WO95/1843/2 ; and 38 is WO95/1844/1. It might be worth getting a look at these just to see if you can narrow down which one he was treated at,it might just be that there is just the one who died of wounds around this time.These Diaries are not yet digital.

Let me know if you are unable to get to Kew to read them and I will see if I can fit them in later in the month.

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Thanks for your help I really appreciate the information and would not have thought about looking at the Field Ambulance records, I will let you know if I can't get to Kew.

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