Jack Sheldon Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 Stanley Richard Heath was killed aged 39 at Gallipoli on 30 April 1915. He has no known grave and is commemorated on the Helles Memorial to the Missing. There is a family story, which I doubt, that he was on board a ship which was blown up. It seems to me to be far more likely that he met his end somewhere near Lone Pine at Anzac because his battalion and others were under command of 1st Australian Division on that date. Can an expert on Anzac or the RMLI offer an opinion on this? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 I don't see an obvious candidate, but I suppose it's possible. Perhaps he was wounded and on board a ship. There's a useful list here Ships sunk in 1915 Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 14 November , 2013 Admin Share Posted 14 November , 2013 Until an expert comes along, his service record is available to download from TNA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 Jack, if he died at sea (for example if he died on a hospital ship just off the Peninsula) then he would be commemorated on one of the Naval Memorials in the UK - Chatham, Portsmouth, Plymouth. The fact he is named on the Helles Memorial strongly suggests he was killed on land, and as he was Chatham Bn., that's going to be somewhere between the Chessboard and Johnston's Jolly from memory for the date you provide. Regards, Jonathan S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeClarke Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 Hi yes, it appears he was once on a torpedoed vessel Enlisted Chatham 17/1/1894 ; Re-engaged 17/1/1906 ; Chatham Bn. at Dunkirk 20/9/14-2/10/14 & Defence of Antwerp 3-9/10/14 ; MEF 6/2/15-30/4/15 DD. RN Long Service & Good Conduct Medal 9/4/1909 ; Appointed Lance Corporal 29/4/15 ; b.Wateringbury, Maidstone, Kent 19/12/1873 ; A Plumber & Painter's Labourer ; Father, Richard, Broomcroft Cottage, Wateringbury, Maidstone, Kent ; Married 23/12/1912 ; Husband of Mary Ann Heath, of Upna Lodge, Upper Gladstone Road, Deal, Kent ; Brother, William, Officers Steward 1st Class, Whale Island, Portsmouth ; 1914 Star issued to widow 13/6/19 ; The Deal Civic War Memorial book (with photo) records:- "One of the happy family groups broken by the war - alas that there should be so many - is seen in the adjoining picture of Lance-Corpl. Richard Heath, R.M.L.I., & his wife & child. In normal times Lce.-Corpl. Heath would have retired to pension in January 1915, but under war conditions an experienced man could not be released. After the outbreak of war he was ordered to the Aboukir, torpedoed on the 22nd September 1914, but he was in fact detailed for the Chatham Battalion of the R.M. Special Service Force. At Antwerp he sustained a slight wound, & he owed his life to the fact that he was re-loading his rifle at the moment when another bullet came through the loophole at which he was engaged. Spared twice, he accompanied his battalion to the Dardanelles in the Spring of 1915, & there unhappily he was killed in action on the 27th May. For some three years Lce.-Corpl. Heath was employed in the Works Department at the Depot." Regards, Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 14 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2013 Thank you all; this is really excellent stuff. The family who contacted me had practically no idea, other than rumours, about what happened to him. Your help is greatly appreciated. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 yes, it appears he was once on a torpedoed vessel After the outbreak of war he was ordered to the Aboukir, torpedoed on the 22nd September 1914, but he was in fact detailed for the Chatham Battalion of the R.M. Special Service Force. At Antwerp he ... Graeme, good work but I read this as he was first posted to Aboukir but never joined the ship as he was sent to Chatham Bn., R.N.D. It's very unlikely he could have been on the Aboukir and then at Antwerp in time for the defence. Regards, Jonathan S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 14 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2013 Graeme Could you expand a little more on The Deal Civic War Memorial book? Is this a physical object or an internet resource? How can it be accessed? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 " there unhappily he was killed in action on the 27th May. " Why then does CWGC have his as 30/4/1915? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeClarke Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 Jack In a word ... DUNNO The above is his service record and it mentions the book in that. Ive just posted it verbatim. I agree, it does not say he was on the Aboukir., but it does confirm the family story of being torpedoed or whatever. Mike, agreed, the citation does say that BUT the bit above agrees with CWGC. Regards all, Graeme (now where are those pills ??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterhastie Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 This months "Britain at War" has an article about Monitor HMS M33. It mentions that it served in the Dardenelles and had a RMLI detachment of ten. My point being, would most ships not have had RM or RMLI detachments and could he not have served and been killed by, say, Turkish artillery fire on one of the ships there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 (edited) He was serving in Chatham Battalion of the Royal Naval Division, landed at Anzac on 28 April and he was killed in action there on 30 April, one of 30+ Chathams to fall on that and the previous day. The Deal book is in error - they were probably provided with wrong information by the family, hence the continuation of the myth in a self-perpetuating circle of errors. Edited 14 November , 2013 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 On page 62 & 63 of On four fronts with the Royal Naval DivisionOn April 28th, the Nelson and three Royal Marine Battalions, under the command of Brigadier-Generals Mercer and Trotman, landed and bivouacked in Shrapnel Valley. Two com- panies of the Nelsons were attached to the 3rd Australian Infantry Division, and along with a battalion under Lieutenant- Colonel Monash, took part in an attack on ' Dead Man's Work.' This was a very costly operation, the Nelsons alone losing six officers and eighty men killed, in addition to numerous wounded. The remainder of this naval brigade were also heavily engaged, and it was here that Lance- Corporal Parker of the Royal Marines gained his well-earned V.C. The following is the official account of his very gallant exploits :On the night of April 30-May 1, 1915, a message asking for ammunition, water, and medical stores was received from an isolated fire trench at Gaba Tepe. A party of non-commissioned officers and men were detailed to carry water and ammunition, and in response to a call for a volunteer from among the stretcher-bearers, Parker at once came forward ; he had, during the previous three days, displayed conspicuous bravery and energy under fire whilst in charge of the battalion stretcher- bearers. Several men had already been killed in a previous attempt to bring assistance to the men holding the fire trench. To reach this trench it was necessary to traverse an area at least four hundred yards wide, which was completely exposed and swept by rifle fire. It was already daylight when the party emerged from shelter, and at once one of the men was wounded. Parker organised a stretcher party and then, going on alone, succeeded in reaching the fire trench, all the water and ammunition carriers being either killed or wounded. After his arrival he rendered assistance to the wounded in the trench, displaying extreme courage and remaining cool and collected in very trying circumstances. The trench had finally to be evacuated, and Parker helped to remove and attend the wounded, though he himself was seriously wounded during the operation.Another incident in this stage of the operations deserving of especial mention was how Lieutenants Alcock and Empson of the Royal Marines, with a band of sixty men, defended a small portion of trench against overwhelming odds. Lieutenant Empson was finally killed, and Lieutenant Alcock compelled to withdraw his men, having held the trench for four nights and three days without food or water, until his ammunition was reduced to fifteen rounds per man.Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 "On Four Fonts..." is, unfortunately, not a very accurate account of the RND at Anzac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 "On Four Fonts..." is, unfortunately, not a very accurate account of the RND at Anzac. OK Horatio2. That's fair enough. Do you know of a more accurate one? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 14 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2013 Thanks to all contributors. Please keep it coming. From past experience, I am sure that a useful consensus will appear as the thread develops. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 These two books give more accurate accoumts:- "The Royal Naval Division" by Douglas Jerrold (the divisional history). "Britain's Sea Soldiers" by General Sir HE Blumberg - better, detailed coverage of the RMLI Battalions at Anzac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 Thank you. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 14 November , 2013 Admin Share Posted 14 November , 2013 The relevant Australian war diaries might help https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/records/awm4/ Divisional diaries are under Formation Headquarters and Brigade HQs are in Infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 November , 2013 Share Posted 20 November , 2013 Jack, if he died at sea (for example if he died on a hospital ship just off the Peninsula) then he would be commemorated on one of the Naval Memorials in the UK - Chatham, Portsmouth, Plymouth. The fact he is named on the Helles Memorial strongly suggests he was killed on land, and as he was Chatham Bn., that's going to be somewhere between the Chessboard and Johnston's Jolly from memory for the date you provide. Regards, Jonathan S Jonathan - I researched a man - Lt George Maclachlan Allan RE who died at sea and is commemorated on the Helles Memorial. Not sure if this an anomaly but my understanding is that all men who died at sea from wounds inflicted at Gallipoli were commemorated on the Helles Memorial. This is different from those RN who died at sea having never set foot on Gallipoli. A subtle but important difference. Not quite sure this has any impact on the OP but thought it worth flagging. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 20 November , 2013 Share Posted 20 November , 2013 Naval personnel who are buried or lost at sea are commemorated on one of the UK Naval Memorials. This also applies to men of the RND who were wounded ashore at Gallipoli and subsequently died and were buried at sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 November , 2013 Share Posted 20 November , 2013 Naval personnel who are buried or lost at sea are commemorated on one of the UK Naval Memorials. This also applies to men of the RND who were wounded ashore at Gallipoli and subsequently died and were buried at sea. Thanks....so two RND men who died at Gallipoli - one dying on land with no known grave and the other at sea from wounds - would be commemorated on separate memorials. Interesting. Thank you for the clarification. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 21 November , 2013 Share Posted 21 November , 2013 Jonathan - I researched a man - Lt George Maclachlan Allan RE who died at sea and is commemorated on the Helles Memorial. Not sure if this an anomaly but my understanding is that all men who died at sea from wounds inflicted at Gallipoli were commemorated on the Helles Memorial. This is different from those RN who died at sea having never set foot on Gallipoli. A subtle but important difference. Not quite sure this has any impact on the OP but thought it worth flagging. MG Martin - there is no anomaly. Your man is Army. Heath was a Royal Marine and came under the auspices of the Admiralty. As such, if he died at sea and having no known grave, his name would have been commemorated on one of the three Royal Naval memorials at home. Regards, Jonathan S Edited: apologies! I see Horatio has already addressed this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 21 November , 2013 Share Posted 21 November , 2013 Jonathan - noted. I had wrongly assumed the Helles memorial did not differentiate between the Services and having researched Lt Allan it stuck in my mind that a man buried at sea was on the memorial. Anyway, all clear now. Thanks MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now