AndrewFrench Posted 13 November , 2013 Share Posted 13 November , 2013 We recently acquired the following photo which was inscribed "Tidworth 1916" on the rear. From my knowledge of the regiment I know this was a group of Warrant Officers and SQMSs who had served together successively in the UK, Egypt and then Gallipoli. They seem to have found themselves together with the 3/1st Berks Yeo at Tidworth and thought it worthy of a photo. At least one man was in training at officer's school, and others may have been still been in the final stages of recuperation from wounds or from Sand Fly fever which hit the regiment badly in the Summer of 1916 in Upper Egypt They are all to be wearing a medal ribbon previously not seen in early photos of any of them. I am 100 % certain that these are not QSA or KSA ribbons. I know there was talk of a Gallipoli medal but it was never produced. Can any experts out there assist ? N.B. The original photos in the album are pretty small at about 2 1/2 x 1 1/2 inches and scanned in at 1200 di Regards Andrew French Assistant Curator Berks Yeomanry Museum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 November , 2013 Share Posted 13 November , 2013 Could it be the King George V coronation medal ribbon (22nd june 1911). It was dark blue and dark red of similar hues so in a B&W photo they might appear the same level of grey. As you know each Yeomanry regiment sent a contingent to the Coronation, usually senior men who by 1916 could easily have been NCOs. Just a thought. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 13 November , 2013 Share Posted 13 November , 2013 The 'thumbnail' at first glance looks like the MM, I believe that the ribbon for the proposed Gallipoli medal was issued, but it was not to be. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 November , 2013 Share Posted 13 November , 2013 ...or possible the India General Service medal 1909 if they were ex-regular cavalrymen who subsequently joined the TF..... . Ribbon is dark green, dark blue, dark green... A long shot...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 13 November , 2013 Share Posted 13 November , 2013 ...or possible the India General Service medal 1909 if they were ex-regular cavalrymen who subsequently joined the TF..... . Ribbon is dark green, dark blue, dark green... A long shot...... Martin, It is the I.G.S.'08 not '09--just thought I would clarify that point Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 13 November , 2013 Share Posted 13 November , 2013 Quite likely to be the TFEM ribbon if they are Berkshire Yeomanry men. Many of these were awarded circa 1911-1913----just a thought!! Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 November , 2013 Share Posted 13 November , 2013 Old Owl...noted. Thanks. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B Posted 13 November , 2013 Share Posted 13 November , 2013 Could even have been the LSGC which, up to 1916 was a plain red ribbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 13 November , 2013 Share Posted 13 November , 2013 Could even have been the LSGC which, up to 1916 was a plain red ribbon. The Yeomanry wouldn't have qualified for the LS&GC medal, their equivalent was the TFEM--I believe. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 November , 2013 Share Posted 13 November , 2013 Unless they were ex regulars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewFrench Posted 13 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 November , 2013 Hi All I'm highly gratified with all the replies. I know the names of all the men. None were previously regular soldier. He have photos of all Troop groups taken Autumn 1914 and no one at that stage is wearing a medal ribbon. They joined at widely varying times so getting a TFEM within a few months of each other seem unlikely. I assume this was a yellow and green ribbon ? Rear (L-R) SQMS BL Bastin (D Sqn), WO2 RQMS GJ Bradbury (RHQ), SQMS HA Radnor (A Sqn), Front (L-R) WO1 R.S.M. HH Bert Haines (RHQ Sqn), WO2 (S.S.M.) RT Hewer (D Sqn) None of the men were awarded a medal for actions at Gallipoli From record we know the enlistment dates below HH Haines 435 joined 1900 later awarded DCM for actions in Judean Hills in Nov 1917. GJ Bradbury 401 joined 1900 BL Bastin 839 " c1904/05 RT Hewer 1040 joined 1906 HA Radnor 1065 " c1906/07 So I would most favour the Gallipoli ribbon idea. Is there any evidence the ribbon was issued I wonder. Another thought as I type this - Why did RSM Haines get the DCM not the MC ? Was it because the establishment in a Yeomanry Regiment for RSM was for a WO2 with Acting WO1 rank). If anyone wants a full size copy of the photo please let me know on andrewgfrench@hotmail.com Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 14 November , 2013 Share Posted 14 November , 2013 Award of an MC to a Warrant Officer not automatic. (And WO2's - as they would be later - qualified for it too, so the WO2 as A/WO1 is a red herring). Difficult to prove from official sources, but an MC to a Warrant Officer indicative of the kind of gallantry which would be a DSO on the officer side. Also, WOs were not eligible for the MM until August 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewFrench Posted 14 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2013 Thanks StaffYeoman I rather thought it would be something along those lines. He was awarded the DCM for action in bring forward ammuniton to an isolated post at Zeitoun, Palestine in November 1917. I am reminded by my curator that we have a framed photograph of Trooper GW Fred Colebrook k/a 21-8-1915 with the Gallipoli ribbon in the frame. I will scan this in next Tuesday and post it here Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewFrench Posted 20 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 20 November , 2013 Here is a picture of Trooper GW Fred Colebrook of B (Reading) Sqdn who was killed in action on 21st August 1915 The photograh was given in a silver frame presented as you see it with press cutting and the Gallipoli Medal ribbon And the medal ribbon itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyStaunton Posted 22 November , 2013 Share Posted 22 November , 2013 The 'thumbnail' at first glance looks like the MM, I believe that the ribbon for the proposed Gallipoli medal was issued, but it was not to be. khaki The ribbon for the proposed Gallipoli Medal was produced but was not issued. It certainly would not have been issued to British troops since the medal was only for Australian and New Zealand troops. The Gallipoli Medal proposal probably originated in 1917 and the proposed ribbon is unlikely to have been produced before 1918. It got close to approval in 1918 and it was at the last moment that the absurdity of issuing a medal to Australians and New Zealanders but not to the British, Indian and Newfoundland troops was appreciated. The solution was the 1914-1915 Star which covered all troops who served on Gallipoli. Australians might remember the late Colonel David Chinn MBE. He wrote a paper on the Gallipoli Medal which he rewrote as an article for Sabretache, the journal of the Military Historical Society of Australia. I can probably find a copy if anyone is interested. Another absurdity is that having issued the 1914-1915 Star for Gallipoli, our veterans immediately forgot that fact and in 1965 there were again calls for the issue of a Gallipoli Medal. The other medal demand that year was for a late VC for Simpson of donkey fame. In 1966, shortly after Harold Holt replaced Robert Menzies as Prime Minister of Australia, it was announced that an Anzac Commemorative Medallion would be issued to members of the Australian and New Zealander forces who served on Gallipoli. On the obverse of the medal was an image of Simpson and his donkey with a wounded soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewFrench Posted 15 December , 2013 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2013 Thanks for comprehensive reply - apologies for delay in posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 15 December , 2013 Share Posted 15 December , 2013 I still think that the only possible ribbon is that for the TFEM, and as there could be circa 18 months to 2 years between the photos, it could be feasible. War service counts double for long service awards and the TFEM was given for 12 years consistent good conduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Wilson Posted 17 December , 2013 Share Posted 17 December , 2013 The proposed Gallipoli Star was to have been a bronze eight pointed star with a circular centre inscribed 'Gallipoli 1914-15' with a crown above – see enclosed extract ‘Ribbons and Medals’ by DORLING and GUILLE page 80 (third edition published in 1960) If you can identify any of the Berkshire Yeoman in the group photograph then it should be possible to identify the medal ribbon being worn from their service records, assuming such records have survived. The TFEM instituted in 1908 was plain dark green with a central yellow stripe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewFrench Posted 1 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 1 February , 2014 Thanks very much for the reply Philip. I have the records from SSM RT Hewer as he was commissioned into the regiment which I will check. I think the records for SQMS BL Bastin should exist at the National Archives as he was also commissioned. Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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