ww1 dress uniforms

[KATELEW]

Hello everyone

I am trying to find out about what the uniform would be like for a captain in the Liverpool Pals regiment in WW!. Not the battle dress but the one that he would use for ceremonies or to get married or attend special functions. Can anyone please help. it is for something that I am writing and I would really like to get the description correct

Thank you in anticipation

Kathy

[Steven Broomfield]

My suspicion is that he would wear pretty much the same: probably a set for special events, but nothing too fancy.

[Ken Lees]

There was no ceremonial issue uniform during the Great War - not for New Army units like the Pals, at least.

[inkerman]

Service Dress Sam Browne Belt and britches and field boots, or trousers [known as slacks] and shoes. They might carry a swagger stick and would have collar and tie and a soft hat, or risk being stopped by the Military Police. Toc H in poperinghe lent library books against the deposit of the borrowers hat. No hat equalled improperly dressed and censure

[Dave1418]

Hi Kate

Officers cuff rank jacket/tunic,(this is where the officers rank was worn prior to being worn on the shoulders) shirt, tie, officers stiff cap not soft cap, Sam Browne with single or double cross strap, sword frog and sword depending on circumstances, breeches, puttees and boots.

regards

Dave

[pbrydon]

Although this is a picture of the commanding officer of one of the Liverpool Pals battalions, a captain would have been dressed in a similar manner with different rank insignia of course.This would have been the only uniform he possessed.

P.B.

[bill24chev]

slightly off topic

Would an officer receiving a (full) Regular Commission as opposed to a temporary commission, have an amount imcluded in the Uniform Grant/allownce on commissioning for a Dress Uniform. The cynic in me would think that the "powers that be" would consider such a payment a waste as the officer may not live long enough to wear it.

[scottmarchand]

I believe the use of formal dress was suspended for the duration, it certainly was during W 2. Patrol dress was worn by some who had it on some occasions. Officers were not expected to acquire dress or wear it - SD was the norm for the war. WD Allowances later on for poor subalterns covered SD only. As officers kit was all private purchase it is possible that a dapper well funded officer might have acquired formal wear, but they's have been out of place in it. No doubt staff officers who were prewar or moneyed indulged in mess dress and did wear it for levees etc. I'm sure some aspects of my generalizations are proved incorrect by exception.

[catfishmo]

So is this dress uniform a gaff on the part of the Downton Abbey costume department? He was supposed to be a captain, I believe, sent to tour England as ADC to a General.

(Need to know if a colonel, captain, and lieutenant would have anything other than standard issue khaki for meeting with a French General.)

Thanks!

~Ginger

[Wardog]

Not sure how common the pictured Mess Dress would have been during the war but I would think only worn in the evening at a function or dinner if the owner could afford it or had it from pre war. Others will have to confirm -not something I have thought of before. Regards, Paul.

This post gives better info. http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=221082&hl=%2Bmess+%2Bdress

[Ron Clifton]

I believe the use of formal dress was suspended for the duration, it certainly was during W 2. Patrol dress was worn by some who had it on some occasions. Officers were not expected to acquire dress or wear it - SD was the norm for the war. WD Allowances later on for poor subalterns covered SD only. As officers kit was all private purchase it is possible that a dapper well funded officer might have acquired formal wear, but they's have been out of place in it. No doubt staff officers who were prewar or moneyed indulged in mess dress and did wear it for levees etc. I'm sure some aspects of my generalizations are proved incorrect by exception.

The wearing of full dress was suspended on 5 August 1914 by a special Army Order, except for the Household Cavalry and Foot Guards, and service dress was the norm thereafter. The illustration in Ginger's post is Mess Dress, and would have been a private purchase by the officer. I don't think officers in the field, particularly the "temporary gentlemen" with wartime commissions, were obliged to obtain it.

Ron

[catfishmo]

Not sure how common the pictured Mess Dress would have been during the war but I would think only worn in the evening at a function or dinner if the owner could afford it or had it from pre war. Others will have to confirm -not something I have thought of before. Regards, Paul.

This post gives better info. http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=221082&hl=%2Bmess+%2Bdress

The wearing of full dress was suspended on 5 August 1914 by a special Army Order, except for the Household Cavalry and Foot Guards, and service dress was the norm thereafter. The illustration in Ginger's post is Mess Dress, and would have been a private purchase by the officer. I don't think officers in the field, particularly the "temporary gentlemen" with wartime commissions, were obliged to obtain it.

Ron

Thanks for the super quick reply! You guys amaze me at the detailed info you know off the top of your head.

So, would it be conceivable or really unlikely that a colonel would order one for his lieutenant and captain to wear if they were trying to make a favorable impression on a French general during a dinner meeting in France in 1917? The colonel is a commissioned officer--2nd son of an earl.

Although it would well serve the purposes of my story, a few things make me think it would be unlikely: It seems to be something the individual would purchase as sort of a status symbol to impress at home. Being that my setting is 1917 in France makes it even less likely. What say you guys?

Thanks!

~Ginger

[FROGSMILE]

Thanks for the super quick reply! You guys amaze me at the detailed info you know off the top of your head.

So, would it be conceivable or really unlikely that a colonel would order one for his lieutenant and captain to wear if they were trying to make a favorable impression on a French general during a dinner meeting in France in 1917? The colonel is a commissioned officer--2nd son of an earl.

Although it would well serve the purposes of my story, a few things make me think it would be unlikely: It seems to be something the individual would purchase as sort of a status symbol to impress at home. Being that my setting is 1917 in France makes it even less likely. What say you guys?

Thanks!

~Ginger

Your 'gut feeling' is spot on Ginger. Neither full dress, nor mess dress were generally used by the temporarily commissioned officers of WW1. Even Regular officers, for whom Mess Dress would in theory have still been a requirement, are unlikely to have purchased one unless it was a special regimental occasion at home and required of them (e.g. ADC's and MA's to generals in appointments at home). The only uniforms required by the wartime officers were two sets of Service Dress with one often, initially at least, kept for 'best'.