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Remembered Today:

4th Welsh heavy battery RGA


megano

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Does anyone know anything about the 4th Welsh heavy battery RGA

It was written on the back of a photo of my Grandfather taken in France 4th August before they left for Arras.

My grandfather was from Anglesey and his name was Robert Morris Jones

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Hello Megano

Welcome/Croeso to the Forum.

I can't help you in identifying 4th Welsh Heavy Battery, RGA and some of the RGA experts may possibly have a view of whether such an unit existed.

A local Territorial RGA unit based on Bangor was the 1st Welsh (Carnarvon) RGA and their first line unit [1st/1st Welsh (Carnarvon) RGA] served in France from March 1916 onwards.

For this unit I have 310249 Robert Morris Jones, 1 Alms House, Penmynydd (also at Fodol Farm outside of Bangor). Also to the Penmynydd address is 310247 Owen Jones.

(the one in the middle 310248 is a William Jones from Llanfairfechan. I mention him as he might be a brother but living elsewhere i. e 3 brothers joining up same time, end Jan/beginning Feb 1915 in this case)

Is this your grandfather?

Hywyn

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Megano

If your relative was 310249 Robert Morris Jones then, as Hywyn suggested, he enlisted around the middle of Jan 1915 (15th to 22nd). Most of the gunners records I have seen around his number were placed in the second line (2/1 Welsh RGA) and may have been posted on anywhere. I think that scanning the photo front and back and posting on forum may give some further insight to what the 4th Welsh Heavy Battery alludes to. Having said that perhaps Hywyn has confirmation that these men did serve with the 1/1 Welsh HB that went to France.

Kevin

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Thanks to both of you for your replies.

Yes Hywyn that is definitely my grandfather.

He lived in the No 1 the alms houses in Penmynydd with his grandparents.

Owen Jones was his uncle and he also had an uncle William but I'm not sure where he lived.

I'll try and post the photograph of him on horseback with the writing on the back.

Perhaps you will be able to decipher it. I may have misread the 1 for a 4.

I will also post the two group photographs.

Is it possible to trace the movement of the battery ?

Thanks very much, Diolch yn fawr iawn

Megan

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Not strictly relevant, but one of their neighbours at 5, Elusendai (Almshouses) was 19193 Private Edward Williams of the 16th attached 14th Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers, who went to France in December 1915 and was killed there on 21 February 1916 aged 23. Buried at Guards' Cemetery, Windy Corner, Cuinchy.

Clive

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Thanks for your reply.

How awfully sad. It must have been terrible for the family to lose their son and yet see the boys next door coming home.

It shattered even the smallest of communities

Megan

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Megan,

What terrific photos. It does say 1/1 Welsh Hvy. Bty. and you couldn't get better confirmation. Does the battery photos have anything written on them? I would imagine Hywyn has its war diary and relevant details. If the photo was taken later in the war then obviously there will be a mix of TF and "regular" gunners in the ranks, especially after the addition of a section from 200 HB. Some names I could add of the regulars if someone is making a nominal roll. Makes you wonder how many TF gunners it took to form a battery if they were being posted from the second line as well.

Hywyn,

I am sure you have gone through all the mens service records but one of interest, I thought, was 269 Richard Henry Williams which shows a RCM at Cambridge. Just out of interest the nearest records I have found to 310249 Robert Morris Jones is 526/310230 Richard Roberts and 548 Samuel Ernest Kidd.

Kevin

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I agree with Kevin that it says 1/1. I have seen a photocopy of the first group one which on the front has hand written endorsment stating it was the 1/1 Welsh HB RGA and taken February 1919 and pto. The reverse then names them all (bar 4), many in surname/initial format. It declares R M Jones to be third from right top row. (No O or Owen Jones and a handful of W Jones!) I'm afraid I currently have no concrete info on who the author of the endorsment is or when it was so endorsed. In your photo it looks to me as if the man second row fifth from left has an arrow towards him. In the photcopy he is W Parry.

If you want to PM me your email I will send you the data.(*hover your cursor over my name on the left and you'll see the 'send message' button)

Hywyn

Kevin

Thanks, I'll have look at 269 RHW. Some time ago I went trawling the 310xxx numbers (and corresponding pre 1917 numbers) against the names in the MIC/Medal Roll. The surnames doesn't make it easy!

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Megan

Here is a recent thread which explains the composition of a 6 gun Heavy Battery

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=201843&hl=

RMJ was a Driver according to his Medal Card/Medal Roll.

In case it helps from your family history side of things the William Jones 310248 I mentioned above had a 1918 address of Bilton Cottage, Llanfairfechan.

Hywyn

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Hywyn and Kevin

Thanks so much for your replies.

According to my late mother my grandfather was in the top row far right, but no 1 right on the end.

There was talk that my fathers uncle from Nebo ,Llanllyfni was in the same photo and therefore in the same battery

so I was wandering if that is the the man with the mark above him on the left of the picture.

His name was Deiniol Wyn Jones.

There was no writing on the back of the battery photos.

I am almost sure that William Jones 310248 was my grandfathers uncle as I can remember my mother mentioning family in Llanfairfechan when she was a child.

I will investigate it further.

Thanks also for the information on RGA Heavy Battery. I must admit It is all completely new to me.

Would my Grandfather as a driver actually ride the horses or would he lead them, towing the guns behind.

Hywyn

I will send you my E.Mail address now

Thanks to both of you once again

Megan

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William Huw Jones from 2 Dew Street, Menai Bridge was a Driver 310340 with the 1/1st Welsh Heavy Battery, (?later 2nd Lancs HB, RGA) and a porter at the University Library in Bangor in the mid-1970s when I was a student. I talked to him often, a nice man. He'd enlisted in some unit when under-age in 1914-15 and was discovered and kicked out. Later he married a Belgian lady, and got the local nickname "Wil Huw Belgie"! I believe his grave at Menai Bridge has/had small Belgian flags on it. He was Home Guard WW2 and also had the King Albert medal, a veteran award.

I've a feeling he's furthest left on the third row down?

Clive

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Was this battery made up of men of Caernarfon shire only do you think.

My Grandfather died at the age of 50 when my mother was only thirteen years old

but was fortunate as where his uncles to survive the war.

My Fathers uncle from Llanllyfni however survived the war only to die at the age of 27 with TB.

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Hywyn will probably confirm to you that the original pre-war unit was largely based round Bangor (including the adjacent part of Anglesey), though it had its Ammunition Column at Llandudno. The Bangor University Officers Training Corps was also affiliated to it. When they were recruiting in 1914-15 it's possible men came from a bit further afield.

Once they got to France there was no saying where replacement personnel might have come from: likewise being in the reserve 2/1st and 3/1st Welsh Heavy Batteries back in the UK wouldn't guarantee that they would be sent to join the 1/1st.

Clive

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  • 9 months later...
Guest RubyLondon

Hi,

I'm trying to find some information on a soldier known as Corporal J S Berry 2/1 Welsh RGA and am hoping you might be able to help. Apart from the above details, the only other information I know is that he was stationed in Leighton in Suffolk at one stage.

Any help would be really appreciated.

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Hi Megano, Hywyn & Clive,

Interesting to read this local (for me) military history.

The Almshouses were well known to me as I am from Star originally.

The Elusendai or colloquially - "Sendai" are historic listed ancient monuments.

I remember an old character called Dic Sendy who used to work at the adjacent coal yard and the coal round.

The Belgian conection with Menai Bridge is I believe that a lot of Belgian refugees arrived in the town in 1914, and wasn't it them who built the Belgian Promenade?

I am sure that the Jones brothers would have known my grandfather who was also from Star, and after the war, put his MT skills to good use, founding the Star Crossroads garage and a very small fleet of lorries.

In the spring of 1918, he was also on the Ypres front, and was also moved to the Arras/ Somme front to face the German offensive.

He was in ASC MT Companies/ siege Parks attached to HA.

No 264 SB seems to appear quite a lot in the war diaries for his MT Coys.

Whether he was exclusively attached to 264 I can't say.

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Hi,

I'm trying to find some information on a soldier known as Corporal J S Berry 2/1 Welsh RGA and am hoping you might be able to help. Apart from the above details, the only other information I know is that he was stationed in Leighton in Suffolk at one stage.

Any help would be really appreciated.

I can't put anyone of this name to the Welsh (Carnarvon) RGA.

Hywyn

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Hi Clive,

He was John Williams, (originally Ty Newydd, Star,Gaerwen), but enlisted when he was at 2 Britannia Terrace, Llanfairpwllgwyngyll.

I think at the time he was working at the Automobile Palace, driving steam traction engines.

Auto Palace used to be where the Co-Op is now.

Drafted into ASC MT Companies as a caterpillar driver.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi,

I'm trying to find some information on a soldier known as Corporal J S Berry 2/1 Welsh RGA and am hoping you might be able to help. Apart from the above details, the only other information I know is that he was stationed in Leighton in Suffolk at one stage.

Any help would be really appreciated.

Hello

I've had a quick look, and the only similar match is J Berry 1423616, a Gunner in the RGA. My great uncle was in the 2/1st before transferring to the 1/1st.

Here is his MIC, hopefully it will reveal more.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_col=200&_dt=M&_ser=WO+372&_q=J+Berry+1423616

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