The Register of the Royal Marines Regimental Segeant Major

[George F]

Dear All,

When I retired from the RM (as the Corps RSM) I produced a book called "The Register of the Royal Marines Regimental Sergeant Major". It has since been gifted to the Corps, however I continue to edit and update it. Due to the fact that the rank/appointment of RSM in the RM was really only formalised in WW2 the "Register" would obviously have proven to be a rather thin volume. I therefore decided to push back in time and include all those I could find who held a rank/appointment in the RM with a function similar to the modern RSM. This brings in the early Sergeants Major, RM Gunners etc. and therefore will show the development of the rank and who were the ancestors of the modern RSM's.

At present the Register contains a nominal list and a lot of career detail/photos of about 850 RSM's, Sgts Maj, RM Gunners etc. plus some 250 Superintendent Clerks.

The reason I write is to ask if anyone can offer any further guidance relating to internet research for not only detail but "mugshot" photos. Or indeed does anyone own such information that they would be prepared to share.

Whilst I live in the UK, I work in the USA and don't get home that often. This of course allows me to work on this project in my spare time - time which my wife would not allow me to waste if I was at home - I never said that your honour. It means that I can't nip up to TNA, the RM Corps Museum etc.

Very many thanks in anticipation

Yours Aye

George F

[bootneck]

Hi George

Besides the Corps Museum I assume that you have also contacted the Royal Marine Historical Society who are based at the Museum.

regards

Bootneck

[horatio2]

A couple here from the RND Roll of Honour:-
Ply/9333 Regimental Sergeant Major (Acting Sergeant Major/Warrant Officer 1st Class) Frederick Rylands GRAHAM MSM, 1/RMLI
Ch/11722 Regimental Sergeant Major (Acting Sergeant Major/Warrant Officer 1st Class) Frederick George WEIGHTMSM, 1/RMLI

Also:
Ch/4844 James FARRELL, (MM AS BATTY QM/ACT RSM ATT DLI. ALSO DEPOT/288)

Lt James George SAMPSON RM. ex-PO/2796 . Also served as 6663 & 233112 RSM, 2/2nd London Regt.

[domwalsh]

How about Serjt.-Maj. (later RSM) Charles John Thatcher, R.M.L.I. who won the DSC at Zeebrugge? "Was mainly instrumental in conveying the heavy scaling ladders from the ship to the Mole, and throughout the operation displayed great coolness and devotion to duty."

[George F]

Gentlemen,

Very many thanks for your kind responses. By way of replies:

To Bootneck - Thanks Royal, I am already a member of the RMHS and they have been very helpful

To horatio2 - Again thanks, I already had the first two names but the second are new to me. It is always great to get new leads.

To domwalsh - I knew of Thatcher before I even started this project - an important Corps historical figure in my mind. He is already in the Register but the bonus here is I didn't have a photograph so many thanks for that.

Again thank you for you time

Yours Aye

George F

[CarylW]

Hi George

Besides the Corps Museum I assume that you have also contacted the Royal Marine Historical Society who are based at the Museum.

regards

Bootneck

I hadn't realised there was a Royal Marine Historical Society, until I saw your post. I've downloaded an application form. (My father was a Royal Marine WW2. I have the photos he took during his war years and wondered what to do with them.)

[George F]

Hi CaryIW,

The link below will take you straight to Amy Hurst who is the archivist in the RM Corps Museum. She in turn can then pass anything on to the lady in charge of the photographic archives whose contact details I am afraid I don't have as she is relatively new in position

Hope this helps

Yours Aye

George F

archive@royalmarinesmuseum.co.uk

[CarylW]

Thank you. That's a great help, I'll contact her.

[bootneck]

George

I'm only a 'historic' member of the RMHS due to my interest in the Corps during the 18th & early 19th centuries; I have done some very superficial research on Corps Staff Sergeants towards the end of the Napoleonic Wars and found that divisional orders and the effective subsistence lists were the easiest route to identify these men rather than through the enlistment books.

Bootneck

[horatio2]

George,

You may already have these. Many of them served in the acting rank and appointment:-

Ch/7683 Francis John HANSON - served as RSM 1st RM Battalion RND Gallipoli. Later commissioned. K.i.a. 13/11/16.

PO/6378 Frank Owen PRISCOTT - served as RSM 2nd RM Battalion RND Gallipoli.

Ch/7117 Charles Neander DUFFY - served as RSM 1/RMLI 1916.

Ply/4548 Richard Frederick ROGERS - served as RSM 2/RMLI 1916. Later commissioned RNVR.

Po/6204 Arthur Martin PRESLAND - served as RSM Howe Battalion RND 1916.

Ch/4329 John George William GILLMAN - served as RSM 'A' Reserve Battalion RND 1916.

Po/7134 James Henry TILDESLEY - served as RSM 1st Reserve RM Battalion RND 1916. Later commissioned.

Ply/4594 Albert John BANKS DCM - served as RSM of Anson Battalion RND 1916-17. Later commissioned.

Ply/2856 James LLOYD (alias LOYAL) - served as RSM of Nelson Battalion RND.

Ply/9324 Arthur Henry SANDS DCM - served as RSM of Drake Battalion RND.

Ch/7771 John BUSHELL MM - served as RSM 1/RMLI RND (2/RMLI at Gavrelle?). Later 1st Reserve RMLI Battalion RND.

Ch/13456 Joseph EDWARDS MSM - served as RSM (?) 2nd and 149 Field Ambulance RND.

Po/9659 Lionel CLARK - served as RSM 2/RMLI RND.

Ply/9333 Frederick Rylands GRAHAM - served as RSM 1/RMLI RND 1917-18. D.o.w. 1/6/1918.

Ply/9484 Thomas Charles GARDNER MSM - served as RSM 2/RMLI RND 1917-18.

Po/4809 George ASHTON - served as RSM 4th Reserve Battalkion RND 1917-18.

Ply/3964 Harry Dorey - served as RSM 2nd Reserve Battalion RND 1918.

Ch/9898 (ex-Ch/8144) Harold George SWAIN - served as RSM 1st Reserve RMLI Battalion RND 1918.

[George F]

Horatio,

I must start by publicly thanking you for your information. I had all the names with the exception of Gillman & Clark. Nonetheless you were also able to add further snippets of important information for most of the others. I wonder what was your source of information?

You refer to them all as RSM which as usual throws up the perennial problem I have relating to their correct title. I have copies of the personal files for quite a few of the men listed and they are all described as Warrant Officers or Sergeants Major (that is either substansive, acting or temporary). I know from the pay scales of the period that there was not a rank of RSM (in the RM) so it appears that they were "referred" to "known as" RSM leading me to think that this was a local custom probably used to reflect or mirror the Army rank of RSM. I have tried on several occasions at the National Archives to track the relevant Admiralty Order-in-Council, London Gazette, Hansard, Admiralty Fleet Order etc. etc. to try to gain some clarity on this matter. All to no avail. I wonder do you (or anyone else reading this) have any knowledge, opinion or ideas/thoughts on the matter?

In closing may I once again thank you for your information

Yours Aye

George F

[CarylW]

George

Came across something that might be of interest in an old edition of 'The Snapper' regimental journal of the East Yorkshire Regiment for July 1931. It was part of a letter written to the editor in which an old soldier was writing about other retired former East Yorkshire Regiment NCO's and Warrant Officers he'd been in contact with. Purely anecdotal but...

This is part of the letter:

'....Yet another old 2nd Vol. Battalion R.S.M., who came to 'The Snappers' from the Royal Marines, and was for some years stationed at Pocklington and later at Beverley. I often have a chat with, in the person of ex-R.S.M. Curry - a Devonian - and one of the old-time school typical of by-gone days. Curry has now well turned the three-score-and ten period, and has lived in retirement in Albert Avenue (Hull) for some time past...'

[George F]

Dear CaryIW

Very many thanks for that. All leads are worth pursuing. I don't have anyone by the name of Curry on my list but I will fish around and see if the name leads anywhere.

Yours Aye

George F

[horatio2]

George,

PM sent.

[Guest WORM Grandson]

Dear All,

When I retired from the RM (as the Corps RSM) I produced a book called "The Register of the Royal Marines Regimental Sergeant Major". It has since been gifted to the Corps, however I continue to edit and update it. Due to the fact that the rank/appointment of RSM in the RM was really only formalised in WW2 the "Register" would obviously have proven to be a rather thin volume. I therefore decided to push back in time and include all those I could find who held a rank/appointment in the RM with a function similar to the modern RSM. This brings in the early Sergeants Major, RM Gunners etc. and therefore will show the development of the rank and who were the ancestors of the modern RSM's.

At present the Register contains a nominal list and a lot of career detail/photos of about 850 RSM's, Sgts Maj, RM Gunners etc. plus some 250 Superintendent Clerks.

The reason I write is to ask if anyone can offer any further guidance relating to internet research for not only detail but "mugshot" photos. Or indeed does anyone own such information that they would be prepared to share.

Whilst I live in the UK, I work in the USA and don't get home that often. This of course allows me to work on this project in my spare time - time which my wife would not allow me to waste if I was at home - I never said that your honour. It means that I can't nip up to TNA, the RM Corps Museum etc.

Very many thanks in anticipation

Yours Aye

George F

Hi George and Horatio

I am a newbie now staring to research members of my family who were at Gallipoli in some way.

PO/6378 Frank Owen PRISCOTT - served as RSM of Portsmouth Battalion and then 2nd RM Battalion RND Gallipoli, I think.

PRISCOTT, Arthur, Colour Sergeant, RMLI, S 6711 (Po) who died [probably of Spanish Flu] Death 27 November 1918 in Imbros, Turkey aka Gökçeada, Turkey

Both Frank and Arthur seem to have ended up as WO1 and the story held among his children was that Frank Priscott's health was broken by the war.

Thomas [Tom] PRISCOTT enlisted 23 October 1897

Tom was I think invalided our after dysentery and died in 1924

I am trying to find out more about their experiences and I would be grateful for any tips or pointers you may be able to offer.

The helpful one of emailing archive@royalmarinesmuseum.co.uk is already noted.

Is it possible to read the unit diaries of the Portsmouth and other Battalions and if so where?

Thanks for reading this and for any help you can offer.

Colin

[Guest bootesville]

Hi,

My Grandfather was Leslie John Boote RSM RM Service No PO.X.1517

I know he was awarded the BEM around June 1953. I think he was 45 Commando as I saw a reference to him on a parade in Malta around 1953-4.

I'm trying to find out more about his service as I knew him very little when I was young. (He was still an RSM as a Grandfather).

If I can obtain a photo I will add it later.

Robin Boote

[seaJane]

I'm afraid this forum is strictly for those serving 1914-1918. The RN Defence Cell should be able to assist with obtaining your grandfather's service record:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records

 

Best wishes.

[horatio2]

Your grandfather enlisted after 1925, which puts him well outside the scope of this First World War forum.