Marcin FELEDZIAK Infantry Regiment 171

[Martin Feledziak]

Two more from Servon. You can see that the elements have bleached the red from the poppy that I left last year.

 

[AliceF]

Martin,

Thank you for all the photos and other info from your visit in France. Very interesting!

Regarding the photo with the poster showing “Was bleibt in uns?”: I found some info on the internet that there is a project at German schools, “researching” issues related to WW1. As finding out about relatives involved, but there were also school visits offered to France (amongst others to visit war cemeteries). The VDK was involved, but not only. French schools are participating as well. Probably a co-project.

Christine

[Martin Feledziak]

Hi Christine

 

That is very good to know, it is important that we involve the children. The German cemetery at Romagnes Sous Mountfaucon has very many burials from 1916 so it is the centenary for them this year. There were also burials for later in 1918 when the Americans forced the German retreat. It looks like there has been much work carried out at that particular cemetery.

 

I am very pleased that I paid a visit this area there is so much to see. 

 

[Martin Feledziak]

This is another gravemarker at Romagnes Sous Montfaucon

Adam Bergmann _ 

Pionier Died 09 05 1916.

 

could be this record match.

 http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/3912484

Garde Reserve Pionier Regiment

appears also to have transferred from Pionier regiment 25

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/1789227

 

[AliceF]

Regarding Romagne-sous-Montfaucon I could read at the VDK webpage that the cemetery was re-designed in 2014 and re-opened in 2016. The older trees had to be taken down because of security reasons. They were planted in the 70ies (?! – I thought they looked older). The new plantings aimed partly to reflect the original design, but also to minimize maintenance effort – thus certain things were changed.

Christine

[healdav]

6 minutes ago, AliceF said:

Regarding Romagne-sous-Montfaucon I could read at the VDK webpage that the cemetery was re-designed in 2014 and re-opened in 2016. The older trees had to be taken down because of security reasons. They were planted in the 70ies (?! – I thought they looked older). The new plantings aimed partly to reflect the original design, but also to minimize maintenance effort – thus certain things were changed.

Christine

A good number of trees were very definitely knocked down by the great storm - I remember having to climb over one or two. I think that is what the 'security' reason was as a lot of grave markers were knocked down by the falling trees.

Its certainly easier to maintiain now but it is a shame that the hedge around the 1870 area has gone. Its difficult now to realsie that its a special area.

[Martin Feledziak]

Thanks Christine and healdav, 

I am pleased that the necessary repairs and improvements have been carried out. It is also refreshing that projects are underway involving the schools.

Particularly to encourage researching the soldiers themselves. 

I think it has more impact when personal details are discovered.

 

Here is a section from the regimental history from IR171 - Oct 1918, I can see mention of Tuilerie Farm which is a short distance from Romagne. I don't fully understand the passage but it mentions Oblt RENOVANZ and a wounding for him.

 

I looked him up on the Verlustlisten and he could be the Lieutenant in the same regiment machinegun company injured in 1915.

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/2140441

 

 

Any idea what the last passage translates to.?

 

 

 

[Martin Feledziak]

Verlustlisten 1. Weltkrieg, page 14002: Heilmeier Michael (Pörnbach)

RIR13 Comp 11

two more possibles from Romagne

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/3704496

 

 

Verlustlisten 1. Weltkrieg, page 12523: Gehrein Ludwig (Berg, Pfalz)

22. Infanterie-Regiment

 

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/3484974

 

[Martin Feledziak]

Back to Servon Melzicourt,

Here is a little floral tribute placed on the quarter for

Joseph POSTLER, Fusilier, died 12 01 1915.

The tribute is a "Malvern" design from the UK.

 

 

[Martin Feledziak]

This is the current search page result from the Verlustlisten.

I have been able to research most of the  names of the below 8  soldiers, 5 are additional reports.

 

I still have very little information for Anton Feledziak. All that I know is he was killed in Russia in 1917.

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/7023320

 

[Martin Feledziak]

Here is the entry from page 21181 Prussian list 965, 17 10 1917

it is from the period when names were listed alphabetically, without unit information.

Last name, first name, part of his date of birth, place of Birth and status ( Killed )

 

Edited 19 August , 2016 by Martin Feledziak

[AliceF]

Hi Martin,

I always read your updates with great interest. Since there is much less known about the front in the East than in the West makes the case even more difficult, I guess. Especially when any information about the unit is missing. Impressing though how fast information about units is now added to the Verlustenliste database. However, I know there will be a gap in 1917/1918.

In a way I thought that in a little place like Szelejewo several soldiers could have been in the same unit. But sorting for place names does not help at all, almost all soldiers belonged to different units. In a way I was surprised that there was no more overlap.

Christine

Szelejewo.pdf

[Martin Feledziak]

Hi Christine.

 

I am amazed just how much information has become available over the last couple of years. Indeed since 2013 I have been able to research my Grandfather who was listed in the Verlustlisten that year. (2013) I would never have guessed that he would have been linked with IR171 which was an Alsace Unit based in Colmar a considerable distance from his Polish homeland.

 

I feel confident that Anton Feledziak will be listed in the pages at the back of a Regimental history and the mystery will be solved but it may take 2 or 3 more years for that information to surface.

 

Many thanks for the PDF which lists casualties from the Polish village of Szelejewo. You are right it was a small community and the list is quite extensive. I see a number of family names and feel sure that they are all linked to my family tree, some by marriage, so they would all know each other.

Michael MARCINKOWSKI, Martin NIEDZIELA, Josef BINIASZ, Johann BINIASZ and Vinzent FRACKOWIAK are very familiar names and are sure to be brothers-in-law.

You can see that Josef FELEDZIAK appears on your PDF file too.

 

The varied spread of the Regiments is also quite large and I understand that pre-war service had the men from these small villages spread around the frontiers. So Johann and Andreas were serving in Metz down in France and Jacob in Thorn in the East. 

Obviously when  war broke out and progressed men were sent anywhere to make up for various losses.

 

Anton was born in 1892 and would logically have started army service in 1912. Theoretically he could have been placed in a frontier regiment like his Cousins of similar age. He would have have entered his 3rd year as war broke out so he was sure to be in an active unit - not a reserve. This is all guesswork so could be wrong. This theory would suggest that he was in training for 2 years then active for 4 war years, getting killed in 1917.

 

Martin

 

 

Edited 21 August , 2016 by Martin Feledziak

[Martin Feledziak]

 

The below graphic is from N05 Militar information Tafeln for 1900. The logical local regiments for Anton would be Fusilier regiment 37 (Krotoschin) or IR155 (Ostrowo) but since neither of these units were in Russia in 1917, they are doubtful.

 

Edited 22 August , 2016 by Martin Feledziak

[Martin Feledziak]

I am just reviewing the items I have for Anton.

The below is from a scan of the church Death record book for Szelejewo.

It gives his name Antonius Feledziak, aged 25 from the village and his parents, Vincentius and Catharina Nawrocik, then In Russia. I am not sure how the church came by this information but it is so brief that it could be incorrect.

 

Normally there is an official Death Certificate but this is all that has been found at this time.

 

 

 

Edited 23 August , 2016 by Martin Feledziak

[Martin Feledziak]

Now looking at the record for his Brother Johann Feledziak Killed in the same year. His entry has the very same last word. The date of death is just a day out but also indicates Russia. This is certainly wrong as he is buried in Consenvoye, France.

Therefore The entry for Anton is now suspect.

 

Edited 23 August , 2016 by Martin Feledziak

[bob lembke]

Martin and Christine;

 

I have followed this thread with interest. In 2000 I found a trove of family letters, mostly from my father and from his father, from the front. I therefore taught myself to read German, and also the old handwriting systems, and started translating them, but additionally started a serious study of the Great War, especially as it pertained to my father and grandfather, who were very different people, and who did interesting but very different things in the war.

 

I have also mastered and/or obtained various tools to research German soldiers in WK I. For example, I have about 110 German national official histories (counting a few duplicates) and about 60 Ranglisten for various periods and armies, but predominantly the Prussian Army. (Martin, while I think of it, I have the unit history of IR 155, which you mentioned recently.)

 

However, I have never understood or mastered the Verlustlisten, other than I know that it is a massive data source for German casualties, and I noted your comments above that indicate that work has been done on it lately, and that it is now more accessible. (I have used the database maintained by the German graves society.) 

 

As my father managed to get wounded four times; I have the precise dates and circumstances for two of them from his Militaerpass; I would like to see what I can learn from the Verlustlisten on these events. (I suspect that two of the woundings will not be covered, and I don't have precise dates, but I do have the date within about a month, and the location.) My father got malaria at Gallipoli; might that be covered?

 

I can't expect that either of you could write me a Verlustlisten manual, but perhaps you could aim me at some publication, or threads in the Forum which outline the source and how to access it.

 

I once was very active on the Forum, but I had to break off my WK I studies and my Forum activity for about three years for personal reasons, but now I am back and starting to participate again. Martin, if you need a IR 155 look-up I have the history. On 28. 12. 16 my father saved the life of an officer of that regiment, and minutes later received his worst wound of the war, very similar to the wound the officer received. This was at Verdun.

[mva]

Bob, do you know this one : http://des.genealogy.net/eingabe-verlustlisten/search

which can help you search the Verlustlisten ?

kind regards from the Somme, martine

[AliceF]

Hi,

of course I can try to help with the Verlustenliste, at least with some basics. 

If you have the family name, first name and place of birth, then you can just type it in the search page (see the link posted above).

Regarding the place (Ortsname) I think it is mostly place of birth or place where the person lived. (Which could of course be different, but I am not really sure how this parts works).

What you get is the information if the person in questioned was wounded, died, is missing, was taken as prisoner etc. What you rarely get is the date when this happened. In a rather few percentage of all cases the date of death is given. In the beginning (1914 maybe start 1915) places and dates of battles are mentioned. During the first years the military unit is given and I think in 1919 again. The years without information about the unit are often a pain, if you do not know more about the person in question. See here the case of Anton. Most years first names are given, some list mention ranks others not (never got a clue about it). The years without information about the unit give the day and month of birth - to be able to identify the person - but not the year!!!

 

If you only know the family/first  name and it is a common name then you have the problem that there can be hundreds or thousands of options....

 

But in your case it is close family so just try and see what you get.

 

Good luck!

 

Christine

Martin,

 

this is very strange that the place of death seems not to be correct for Johann?!

 

Christine

[Martin Feledziak]

Greetings, Bob, Christine and MVA

 

Happy I am that someone is taking the time to read this thread. It is always interesting to me so that is why I am typing away, keeping notes.

So to you Bob, yes please can you have a look through those last pages of IR155 and see if Anton is listed in the back. I fear that each company is listed alphabetically therefore there could be 12 or more different sections to leaf through.

 

Then at least I can rule out IR155 from my research.

 

Obviously I am now very interested to learn of the incident you mention where your Father and the officer were wounded. 

Have you got a thread running which includes this information ?

 

As for the verlustlisten, I find it a very basic tool, however it has provided me with extra special 'gold nuggets' to help me crack my family history.

I am sure we will chat some more.

 

Martin

[bob lembke]

7 hours ago, Martin Feledziak said:

Greetings, Bob, Christine and MVA

 

Happy I am that someone is taking the time to read this thread. It is always interesting to me so that is why I am typing away, keeping notes.

So to you Bob, yes please can you have a look through those last pages of IR155 and see if Anton is listed in the back. I fear that each company is listed alphabetically therefore there could be 12 or more different sections to leaf through.

 

Then at least I can rule out IR155 from my research.

 

Obviously I am now very interested to learn of the incident you mention where your Father and the officer were wounded. 

Have you got a thread running which includes this information ?

 

As for the verlustlisten, I find it a very basic tool, however it has provided me with extra special 'gold nuggets' to help me crack my family history.

I am sure we will chat some more.

 

Martin

Martin, Christine, and MVA;

 

I will first address Martin's comments, as above.

 

I have the unit history of IR 155 in the form of a DVD, very usefully sold by a (relatively) young German fellow whose name escapes me for the moment, who has scanned dozens and possibly now hundreds of WK I unit histories and now possibly official histories, and (at least a few years ago) sold them for 5 Euros each.

 

Unfortunately, I have been away from my WK I studies for a few years, by necessity, and in that period I have less mobility, and now it actually is physically difficult to reach some of my materials. And while my books are well-organized, my relatively fewer DVD and CD references are not, so I might not be able to quickly find that CD, or even physically reach that resource, especially on a higher shelf. So I propose that I will PM Martin with my e-mail address, and encourage him to tickle my memory once or twice until I locate the disk and delve into it.

 

Here is the story of my father's most serious wound, which also probably allowed him to survive the Great War. My father was, in December 1916, a member of 2. Kompagnie of the Garde=Pionier=Reserve=Regiment, the flame-thrower regiment of the Prussian Guard, the principal flame-thrower (FW) unit of the German Armies in WK I. (All of this is being written as I sit in bed at 2:19 AM local time, having woken up a while ago; so this is being written strictly from memory, but probably accurately.)

 

While most historians state that the Battle of Verdun had ended a couple of months before, the battle actually continued at a lower level, arguably until the end of the war. In December 1916 the French were advancing on Toten Mann (Morte Homme or "Dead Man's Hill"), and if they progressed further they would be able to gain observation positions which would have seriously compromised the German situation. The Germans decided to act on the principle that "the best defense is a good offense"; to push the French back on Morte Homme to deny them better observation posts over that sector of the German Verdun positions.

 

The following account is based on my father's oral history, on the unit history of IR 155, on one or two books written about 15 years ago on Verdun by a (then) Bundeswehr Hauptmann, on several of my father's letters from the front and then from hospital, and from several other sources, such as  German official histories covering Verdun. I may not be extremely specific with some details, due to presently writing from memory of several years' duration, but also to deny some details from a troll in my life, a bete noir who might siphon up detail and publish it as his own. (Don't ask.)

 

A lieutenant of IR 155 was not taking a direct part in the attack on the French trench lines on Morte Homme, but was idling in position, and was about to ask a fellow officer for a cigarette. However, a "French 75" shell exploded in his vicinity, and his right hand was hanging from his wrist by a shred of tissue. My father was nearby, waiting to take part in a flame attack as part of the offensive action, and he sprang forward and put a tornequate (spelling?) about the officer's wrist. He then escorted the officer to the rear and turned him over to a first aid man, who cut the dangling hand off with his "butter knife", and took the officer further to the rear, got him a stiff drink, and got him into a car to go to the rear for surgery. I have a photo of the same officer in 1918, standing with a few fellow officers; he is hiding the stump of his (missing) right hand behind his back, probably to not upset the wives or girlfriends of the other officers in the picture with him. In his own description of the event, the wounded officer thought that the EM/OR who intervened to probably save him was one of his own men, he did not realize that it was a Flamm=Pionier. This incident was also described in a book written by the afor-mentioned Bundeswehr Hauptmann; I wrote him, mentioning that the intervening EM/OR was my father, not a soldier from IR 155, as the wounded officer thought.

 

In a letter that my father wrote from hospital a few days later, to his officer father, my father described the incident, (incorrectly) spelling the officer's name, and providing his unit, "IR 155".

 

I have written a lot, when I write in bed on my laptop I sometimes lose the entire document, so I am going to post this description now, before I lose it. I may fall asleep before I finish the incident.

[bob lembke]

Guys and Gal;

 

After moving the lieutenant back my father rejoined his Flamm=Trupp and they attacked. However, another French 75 shell exploded amongst them while they were in no-man's-land, and every man (about 10) was wounded. As my father was the worst wounded, a bad wound in the  back upper left arm, they had to leave him in an old abandoned French dugout. While there, a stay of three days, he had a remarkable interaction with two French soldiers, which I will keep to myself for the moment. (Hearing them approaching, he hid his P 08 automatic pistol under his butt.) Finally, after three days sitting against a wall of the dugout, he was found as the Germans were about to pull back.

He was taken to a medical post, and a doctor pronounced "Ah, a light wound". He pushed a platinum probe into the pressurized infected abcess, and my father noted with satisfaction as an explosion of puss sprayed into the doctor's face.

 

I have four letters my father wrote describing these events, one the longest letter of his that I have, probably having a lot of time in the hospital bed. There must have been bits of material  the wound causing infectious flare-ups, and he spent 1917 in and out of hospitals. In the 1950s the wound looked a bit like the Grand Canyon in the back of his arm. I have a bit of his arm bone, in a little packet fashioned from a piece of paper, written on it in a fine script is, translated, "bone splinter, Georg Lembke". The doctors gave him the shell splinter that did the damage, but the night after the operation a nurse, tidying up his side table as he slept, threw it away. In 1917 he required about 15 minor surgeries, inserting and moving drains, and so on, and I have a letter in which he told his father that a doctor told him why they never used anesthetic, and apologized for that. But the wound kept him out of fighting, stationed in Berlin training new Flamm=Truppen, until he was able to trick his way back to the front to get back into the fighting, then managing to get wounded twice in a month, the second blinding him and his whole Flamm=Trupp with gas during a flame attack; he did recover his sight, two of the Trupp did not. That was the end of his fighting in WK I. But days after he was discharged from his unit, he joined a Freikorps based on the Prussian Guard, and he was back in the fighting within days, in Berlin, using the flame-thrower to good effect.

 

He repeatedly told me that the war times were the best days of his life, he was one of that crazy 2% that loved it (he fought in two of the top three storm units in the German Armies in WK I, and they were really good at what they did), but he did not like the civil war, in which he took part in shooting 26 Red sailors, who were in Berlin trying to catch and kill my grand-father's commanding general (General von Beseler), among other mischief.

 

I have about 1500 pages of time-lines and drafts written down on the Great War, focused on my father and grandfather; I really have to crank out a book or two.

[Martin Feledziak]

Bob - you seriously need to crank that book out pronto.

you need to start now, otherwise all of it will be lost.

 

You hold rare material and first hand accounts which you have collected from your Father. I am sure no-one else would be able to do justice to it, even if they could find or even understand those mystical scripts that they wrote with. The rest is in your head.

 

So when you wake up early this morning get started. !!

 

I do not have any of those nice regimental histories but I have seen that they do appear but are such a price, we are talking big bucks, out of my range.

However I already

 ordered three discs from Patrick which I found relevant to to my family.

I have :-

Pionier Battalion 29 - relevant to Johann Feledziak

RIR61 -  relevant to Jacob Feledziak

IR136 - the sister Unit to IR171 - for Marcin Feledziak.

 

I would love to find :-

IR171 - for my Grandfather Marcin Feledziak

Fusilier Regiment 37 - Relevant to Johann Feledziak

Fuslier Regiment 39 - Relevant to Marcin Feledziak

IR145 - Relevant to Andreas Feledziak

RIR6 - Relevant to Josef Feledziak

 

I would not be able to read them but I could work out places and dates from them, and I can always study maps.

 

The Verdun region appears to be the centre where all of my ancestors were sent to fight. I feel sure that Anton will have been killed there too.

Johann died in 1915 fighting in underground minewarefare in a place called Bagatelle Pavilion.

His cousin also Johann died as a result of fighting on Hill 304 in June-July 1917.

Andreas was wounded in 1914 again near to Bagatelle Pavilion.

 

So a place for me to study.

 

 

[bob lembke]

Martin;

 

On Hill 304, on a pre-dawn flame attack, in 1916, my father attempted to save a French officer, talking to him in his excellent French to hand over his pocket pistol. Instead he shot my father right into his outstretched hand. A second or two later my father's sergeant bisected the officer's head with his sharpened spade, thru the Adrian helmet. Edge caught in his teeth.  Extremely painful muzzle blast into my father's hand. Not serious enough to be considered a wound. One other "unrecognized" wound. Ernst Juenger mentioned seven recognized wounds, but 14 "holes in his body". 50% seems to be the ratio. 

[Martin Feledziak]

Greetings Bob

A grisly tale indeed all the more reason to get a book up and running..!!

As for The "Storm of Steel" a most excellent book, one which I would certainly recommend to anyone who wants to follow an epic adventure of horror.

 

You have got me thinking now about Hill 304. ( but 1917 ). Now this could be just a coincidence but I found this in

the below passage.  I have copied it out from a most excellent web site and now I see that IR155 were there too.

 

Operation "Drahthindernis" (Wire obstacle) would be carried out by the 37. Reserve Infanterie Regiment (Sector Quelle) and the 37. Füsilier Regiment (Sector Hindenburg). Operation "Beobachtung" (Observation) would be carried out separately by the 155. Infanterie Regiment in the sector "Höhe" (Height).
The orders for the division were as follows..
The 10th R.D. will attack and capture the French trenches in front of the sectors Hindenburg and Quelle
The objective is to give a bloody nose to the facing French division, take their positions, thereby thereby taking away observation posts that allow him to see deep into our lines. We will have won useful observation and defensive positions for ourselves.
The orders for the 155. I.R. and operation "Beobachtung" were..
"The 10th R.D. will continue the attack in sector "Höhe" and take positions that assure our observation on the Southern slope of the Höhe 304.
Two hours before the Infantry attack the most dangerous enemy artillery positions will be gassed, and 10 minutes before our main bombardment the enemy Command and observation posts will be engaged.
For one and a half hours the Artillery and Minenwerfer will bombard the positions then seal them off from the rear with a barrage. During the bombardment "Sturmgassen" (Assault paths) will be blown in our own defensive obstacles. 
At Y hour the Sturmabteilung will break into the enemy positions and take them. The barrage will last as long as it takes to secure the positions."
The Operation "Drahthindernis" was ordered for the 28th of June, operation "Beobachtung" for the 29th of June.
Commanding the Sturmabteilung were Lt.d.Res Biedermann, Lt.d.R. Pollmeier, Lt.d.Res. Pellner and Lt. Ronke. Coordination the attack were Oblt. Graeter and Lt. Fraedrich. A number of Flamethrowers from Sturmabteilung Rohr would accompany them.
On the 28th of July operation "Drahthindernis" was carried out successfully.
At 4.00 am on the morning of the 29th the Stosstrupps (assault sections) of the 155. I.R. took their place in the first line. They were accompanied by men of the III. Batln. who were to follow with ammunition and supplies and were to prepare the new positions while the Stosstrupps fought back counter attacks.

 

Here is where I copied it from

http://www.kaiserscross.com/40029/41518.html

 

So Johann was wounded on 28th June 1917 and later died in Hospital in Stennay. He was serving with Fusilier Regiment 37.

It is just possible that his Brother Anton was killed around the same time and could have been serving with IR155.

 

The link to Patrick's CD site is here

http://military-books.lima-city.de/hp12/complete-list.html

 

I can see he has the IR155 disc at a double premium of 10 Euro's.

I have now ordered the file.

 ( Although now he does a file transfer so no disc, and it arrives by magic ) 

 

 

Edited 26 August , 2016 by Martin Feledziak