Bloomin' cheek!

[SPotter]

Pals,

This lot has just closed on eBay and I idly followed a link in the description (below)...

eBay

...only to be brought to The Long, Long Trail. Perhaps I am doing the seller an injustice and permission was sought, but it does seem a bit of a cheek to advertise one's wares using links to the mother site.

Any thoughts?

Steve

[CROONAERT]

I don't have my own website, so I don't know how Chris and other website owners would feel about this, but personally, I think I'd see it as a bit of free advertisement. A link that takes you direct to the website can't do any harm in my eyes (and could introduce the site to people who didn't know of it's existance), it's just when sections get plagurised (excuse the spelling!) and not acknowledged that I'd find annoying (just like what has happened on that page(?) if you don't follow the link ).

Dave.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

The price of fame

[Max Poilu]

I can see your point but I think Dave is quite right. Unlike many the seller has made a real effort to provide some good background infromation and appropiate photographs.

It never ceases to amaze me the lack of effort some ebay sellers make to 'sell' their wares, in my experience it makes such a difference to the final price.

What really gets my goat is the thieving g!ts who pinch my descriptions word for word and plonk it in their listings....

[harribobs]

i can't see any problem with it, he's directing any potential buyers to a good source of information, that's a pleasant change on ebay ( my auctions excluded of course )

[Jonathan Saunders]

Personally I think it is some guy trying to enhance his "lot" through the hard work of another individual(s) without a care who the "lot" goes to.

IMHO if he had good intentions with regard to the "lot" and its final destination, then by finding the mother-site, he would have advertised it on this Forum first, bearing in mind the effort he has gone to to provide background info etc.

If he wants to sell it on ebay to the higest bidder, as is his entitlement, then he shouldnt steal other peoples hard work.

[harribobs]

IMHO if he had good intentions with regard to the "lot" and its final destination, then by finding the mother-site, he would have advertised it on this Forum first, bearing in mind the effort he has gone to to provide background info etc.

good intentions are all very well but...... some of us finance our projects by selling on ebay, when i'm rich and famous .........

if i can sell a british badge to a guy in texas and use the profit to buy a manchesters pair that i can research and establish their history that will be passed on, that's success

the seller didn't try to con anybody and quite rightly directed them to a decent source

no problems with me

[Jonathan Saunders]

IMHO if he had good intentions with regard to the "lot" and its final destination, then by finding the mother-site, he would have advertised it on this Forum first, bearing in mind the effort he has gone to to provide background info etc.

good intentions are all very well but...... some of us finance our projects by selling on ebay, when i'm rich and famous .........

if i can sell a british badge to a guy in texas and use the profit to buy a manchesters pair that i can research and establish their history that will be passed on, that's success

the seller didn't try to con anybody and quite rightly directed them to a decent source

no problems with me

Then I think he should have sold the medal off his own back.

I should show my full hand and say I have seen my own hard work "lifted" and used as an advertisement on ebay - with regard to a subject which is obviously very important to me - and despite putting in a bid far above the value of the "lot" someone else outbid me. That is fair enough in itself but as my contact name was all over the material that was lifted, then I think by common courtesy it should have 1) been offered to me (and I would have paid an exorbitant price) or 2) you sell your lot without stealing the hard work of a someone with a committed interest.

I would not want to finance my own projects by denying the ownership of an item to an individual with a commited interest that was made known to me, and in fact I would probably be happy to make a loss to make sure the item went to the right person.

[harribobs]

I would not want to finance my own projects by denying the ownership of an item to an individual with a commited interest that was made known to me, and in fact I would probably be happy to make a loss to make sure the item went to the right person.

please don't think i want an arguement about this, but we (the forumistas here) are a minority, and yes it would be great if every one that came across a trio, pair

, plaque or a VC, would contact the remaining family and give it them

in the real world we have to buy them, research them, and then try to pass them on to to others who treasure them, very often that is not the family.

i don't know your 'ownership' to them but i still maintain the seller on ebay was providing a decent source of information

chris

[Jonathan Saunders]

i don't know your 'ownership' to them but i still maintain the seller on ebay was providing a decent source of information

I used the wrong word with "ownership" and what I really meant was guardianship until such a time as the item can be passed/sold on to a like minded individual.

I disagree that the seller was using a decent source of information and I would conclude they blatantly "stole" someone elses hard work with no other objective but to sell to the highest bidder, which to my mind is an abuse.

An argument was furthest from my mind - we obviously differ on this subject.

[harribobs]

I used the wrong word  with "ownership" and what I really meant was guardianship until such a time as the item can be passed/sold on to a like minded individual.

I disagree that the seller was using a decent source of information and I would conclude they blatantly "stole" someone elses hard work with no other objective but to sell to the highest bidder, which to my mind is an abuse.

An argument was furthest from my mind - we obviously differ on this subject.

no...i'm not so sure we differ that much that much

i know you're annoyed over it, and guardianship is right, but if he points the buyer (future guardian) in the right direction that's got to be a plus point?

chris

[SPotter]

Pals,

An interesting response, and I have to admit, slightly surprising one. Personally I have no particularly hard and fast stance on this - I just think that at the very least an acknowledgment of sources would have been appropriate but a "with the permission of..." would have been better.

What surprises me more is that the members of this forum could perhaps be swayed into buying something by the amount of information presented in the "advertising" blurb, particularly as his link was to what could best be described as background information and of no relevance to the individual recipient per se.

Personally if I see something to the Regiment I am interested in then all I need is the name and/or number to be able to complete the detail for myself. Surely it is this type of collector who is more likely to end up bidding higher for an item than a 'general' one, who is looking for an example of a particular type of medal or whatever theme they follow?

Just a thought.

Steve

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

I seem to recall that when this occured before, Chris e-mailed the vendor and a credit was given to the website.

In an instance like this, it is very much up to the webmaster and/or owner to dictate policy. However I doubt the vendor is actually breaking the law by creating a link to the mothersite. If I am wrong, I would welcome the appropriate edification, but I suspect there is very little anyone can do.

[Marco]

Hard work.... well he used the wrong photo (Fampoux BC is shown not Sunken Road) see

http://www.xs4all.nl/~aur/Cemeteries/SUNKENROADFAMPOUX.htm

and

http://www.xs4all.nl/~aur/layout/Cemeteries/FAMPOUXbc.htm

But he used a link to this site and did not simply lift the material without credit. Just wish everybody was that nice.

Regards,

Marco

[DirtyDick]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

As to copyright: I don't believe providing a link to a website, from which one has taken basic information for a temporary advert such as this, would be an infringement.

And even if it was, there would be little to do except take the individual to court over intellectual property rights; in reality seeking damages for either loss of earnings or defamation of integrity and character.

If information is freely placed in the Public Domain on the Internet, despite being protected by copyright law as soon as it is produced, in reality people will lift your work and use it. If they were to use it on their own website or for a commercial enterprise, then not asking for permission could be rightly seen as rudeness, if not a blatant infringement of copyright (but only if they copied great chunks of your text/information and pasted it onto theirs rather than the broad outline), but a brief precis and link on an advert, to my mind, does not fit into this category.

Richard