Do Service Records for all Officers still exist?

[aradgick]

I am trying to locate Officer Service Records for four men. I have downloaded the relevant files from WO338 at TNA, but am still having difficulty identifying them? Can anyone with more knowledge of the system help please?

Alexander Wood, 3/Sussex attd Royal West Surrey, also formerly 15th Hussars (L.G. 1900) and Royal Warwickshire (L.G. 1907)

Sydney Arthur Smith, 10/Hampshire

James Robert Reid, 1/Royal Berkshire

Also:

Henry Cave West, RFA/RHA. I've found the Long Number 9954 (I think) - but can't work out the WO339 reference from it.

Any help would be much appreciated

Andrewr

[Coldstreamer]

if served after ww1 then wont be released for a while yet

[SteveE]

Andrew

Alexander Wood, 3/Sussex attd Royal West Surrey, also formerly 15th Hussars (L.G. 1900) and Royal Warwickshire (L.G. 1907) = I can't identify anyone that matches these details

Sydney Arthur Smith, 10/Hampshire = WO 339/5312 Indexed as 2nd Lieutenant Sydney Arthur SMITH. The Hampshire Regiment. (Old WO339 Ref. = 7284 and shows commission to 10/37[th Foot] (10th/Hampshire Regt.))

James Robert Reid, 1/Royal Berkshire = WO 339/3565 Indexed as Lieutenant James Robert REID. The Royal Warwickshire Regiment. (Old WO339 Ref. = 4945 and shows commission to 49[th Foot] (Berkshire Regt.))

Henry Cave West, RFA/RHA. = Record doesn't appear to survive (Old WO339 ref. = 9954 and shows commission to Royal Horse Artillery)

Regards

Steve

[keithmroberts]

Apart from those whose records are still with MOD, some are just missing. Maybe it is only a few, but some just are not there. I have tried on one of my chaps, and had assistance from staff at Kew, the upshot of which is that he had a file - there is a long number in the old set of records, but no file survives for that officer, unless one day it turns up inside another document.

Keith

[John_Hartley]

I am currently researching the officers of our local Territorial battalion - 6th Cheshires. I havnt identified all who served as yet but, so far, this is what I find:

87 have a file in the WO374 series

6 have a file in the WO339 series

34 have no obvious file

[Colin W Taylor]

I have to agree with Keith; there are some that are just missing. With regards to 'no obvious file' I would hate to be looking for someone specific under all the 'Smith, J's. Unfortunately some are very poorly named though this seems to have improved in recent years considerably - Kew must have learnt the wasted time and effort of having to order numerous files just to get the one you want.

Regards

Colin

[John_Hartley]

No Smiths amongst my "no obvious file" chaps. But no obvious files for a Huffam, Newth, Orrett, Stanway or Tooker - sufficiently rare names that I would have expected to find them if they're there.

[rflory]

Captain Henry Cave West, MC, RHA

Born on 5 June 1881, the son of S H West of Leamington

Educated at Wellington College from 1896 to 1900 (Cap, 1898; Prefect, 1898; Head of School, 1899; Queen's Gold Medal, 1900)

At Balliol College, Oxford University from 1900 to 1902 (Rugby XV, Hockey XI, 3rd Class Moderations in Classics)

Commissioned as University Candidate in the RHA, 24 December 1902

Served in India from March 1903 to December 1906 and from December 1907 to 1914

Lieutenant, 24 December 1905

Captain, 1914

Mentioned in Despatches, London Gazette 5 April 1916 for service with "S" Battery, RHA in Mesopotamia from 6 November 1914 to 14 April 1915

Military Cross, London Gazette, 29 October 1915. There is no citation but the third source, below, indicates: At Nukhaila on 3 March 1915, in mid-afternoon the Turks attacked just as the guns were being limbered. "Seeing the guns of "S" Battery in danger, a squadron of 33rd Cavalry led by Lieutenant Colonel Stack charged right into the enemy and that gallant officer was wounded. But the enemy got into the Battery whose officers fought hard with swords, and pistols and severe hand-to-hand fighting developed; in 'thick dust and sand the figures of wildly galloping horsemen could be seen, bullets whistling in every direction. The Arabs , clearly after a gun, shot at the horses of "A" sub-section. Captain H. C. West, the Section Commander (later killed at Ctesiphon) and Major J. Renny-Tailyour dashed across to the gun and, with some gunners, defended it with revolvers and rifles keeping the enemy at bay."

Killed in action near Cestiphon on 23 November 1915 while serving with "S" Battery, RHA.

His photo below is from the first-named source.

Sources: Balliol College War Memorial Book 1914-1919, Volume II; The Balliol College Register 1833-1933; History of the Royal Regiment of Artillery: the Forgotten Fronts and the Home Base 1914-18; List of Officers of the Royal Regiment of Artillery from June 1862 to June 1914; Short History of "S" Battery 1826-1926; War Diary of "S" Battery, RHA: Wellington College Register January 1859 -December 1933.

[aradgick]

SteveE -many thanks for taking the time to search the files for me and identify the files for two of 'my' men

Keith (and Colin) - thanks for confirming my suspicions

Rflory - thanks to you as well for the extra information and photo for Henry Cave West

Andrewr

[David_Underdown]

What we see now in WO 339 and WO 374 was originally merely additional correspondence files, not records of service as such (which is why their content is so variable). The main record of service was destroyed in the same fire (caused by German records) that accounted for ORs records. See the research guide on Officers' records http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/officerbritisharmyafter1913.htm (the side bar on the right in particular) and for more details on the complete account of what was lost in the fire see http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Records_destroyed_at_the_Army_Records_Centre,_Arnside_Street,_London_as_a_result_of_bombing_on_8_September_1940 and http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/research/index.php/the-disastrous-1940-arnside-street-fire/

Probably some officers never had these files created, others had been completely weeded by 1940. In addition, it seems files for RAMC temporary officers were originally held separately and have been entirely destroyed at some point along the way.

[John_Hartley]

David's right. The 339/374 files can be very disappointing for the researcher - often all there is are notes about money the officer owes or is owed, and similar stuff. Occasional good stuff though - particularly if there's an exoneration report if the man have been a PoW.

[spof]

Or if he enlisted from the ranks then you'll usually get the original attestation form. One I looked at recently even had correspondence from DHSS about his wound (lost a leg) up until 1971.

[stuart714]

I have found that many officers especially those of pre 1914 service have no papers in Kew, as part of my ongoing research into Seaforth Officers, and some you would expect to have papers ie given commissions during the war also don't survive. Currently working on officers who were discharged with wounds and awarded SWB and a few of them don't survive too or are still held by MOD.

Stuart

[EastSurrey]

Even the surviving files have been weeded.All too often for officers who died, there is little more than paperwork around their death and dealing with their estate(,although for the 'missing' there can sometimes be witness statements, on how and where they were last seen). On the other hand, there are sometimes other interesting survivals, including reports from returned POWs regarding circumstances of capture; reports on prospective officers from cadet battalions ,and even sometimes records regarding disciplinary matters ,although I believe there were originally separate confidential files.

Michael

[aradgick]

Having spent the day at Kew, I'm pleased to report the diary for 'S' Battery, Royal Horse Artillery, covers the incident leading up to the death of Henry Cave West in great detail.

Andrewr