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Remembered Today:

What Division was my Grandfather in


arsenalred

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My Grandfather William George Pearce

Please could you assist me in finding out My Grandfathers Division.

I have been to the PRO, And have the following information

his number was 2569 & then 546565 he enlisted on the 8/7/1915

his corps 1st London division unit 42A T coy R.E.

but also on the papers it says 3/1st London Field Co R.E.T. & on another form (i think this is a Charge or punishment sheet ) it is Character by lieut. RE (T) A/ADJT 516th ( 1st London) Reserve Feild Co R.E. (T)

When I have looked up the 516th on the internet it says 514th to 516th not used or unknown

was my grandfather in the 516th or is this just the unit of an officer signing the form

My grandfather was wounded in action on the 5/7/1916 on the casualty form it says Date 9.7.16 Wounded in action Date of Casualty 5.7.16 b215 21

date 13.7.16 No 8 Red X Hosp Embarked for England H.S. Brighton Date of Casualty 13.7.16 A something W3683 A1833

(G.S.W. 8.4 Scapula

Thanking you all in Anticipation Neil Pearce

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Hi Neil.,

A bit of a tough one. Best guess.....

Enlisted 1915. I am guessing 1st London Divisional Engineers, which consisted of a number of RE units including the 1/3rd London Field Coy. Overseas March 1916 joining 1/2nd London Field Company which appears to have been attached to 29th Division later becoming 510th Field Coy. Wounded in 1916. Back home to 1/3rd (perhaps also designated 1st London Reserve Coy and later 516th Coy) Deployed again to 42 Army Troops Coy, which was attached to GHQ.

Rgds

Tim D

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Hello Neil, and welcome to the Forum!

It is just possible that 516 has been confused with 56th, the number the 1st Lindon Division was given in May 1915. At any rate, that seems to be the division in which he served, and given the date he was wounded, it was probably in the "diversionary" attack around Gommecourt at the beginning of July, part of the Battles of the Somme.

GSW is gun shot wound; 8.4 is a code representing a compound fracture of one of the long bones of the arm; the scapula as you probably know is the shoulder blade. In any case, one of the nastier wounds, but clearly what the soldiers called a "Blighty one", involving transport back to the UK. HS imeans a Hospital Ship but I don't know if Brighton is the ship's name or the place he was sent - there were certainly military hospital facilities there.

Casualty and disciplinary details were listed on the same form, so there is nothing sinister in that! A/ADJT means Acting Adjutant, the staff officer who dealt with the admin of a unit.

Ron

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Ron, Tim is correct and there is no confusion with the 56th. He enlisted in the 1st London Engineers and was posted to the 1/2 London Field Company the day before he landed in France on the 18/3/1916, his Army Trade was a painter for which he received additional pay (looks like 1/4d per day)

The LIEUT RE (T) A/ADJT 516th (1st LONDON) RESERVE FIELD Co RE (T) [a rubber stamp reproduced exactly as shown in the record i.e. bold caps] is the officer who signed his conduct record; interestingly the rubber stamp for an earlier entry in 1917 simply says LIEUT RE (T) A/ADJT 1st LONDON RESERVE FIELD Co RE (T).

His court martial was in France for an incident on 20/09/1918, the offences were, 1.'discipline under traffic control and 2. making a false statement to an MP (hearing was on 28/9 so guess it was CO's orders) sentenced to 3 days Field Punishment No 2. The CO of 42 Army Troops Company is the reporting officer.

So his overseas service as Tim has said was, initially with 1/2 London Field Company from 18/3/1916 until wounded in action on 5th July 1916. He was passed up the casualty evacuation chain (no details) until arriving at No 8 Red Cross Hospital (Calais) and from there to the UK on the H.S. Brighton on 13th July. It seems he remained in the UK, although the record has faded, and he was probably convalescing until he was posted to the No1 Reserve Battn RE at Chatham in January 1918 (gsw to the shoulder was probably quite a handicap in his former trade).

On the 24th April 1918 he rejoined the BEF at the IBD (Infantry Base Depot) and on the 11th May 1918 joined 42 Army Troops Company 'in the field'. He was discharged July 1919 to the 'Z' Reserve.

It is perhaps worth noting the 29th Division landed in France and moved to the Western Front from 15 - 29 March 1916 which is when he joined them

http://www.1914-1918.net/29div.htm

Ken

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Dear Ken Ron & Tim

Thank you so much for your kind help , Excuse my ignorance, was he in the 56th division or the 29th ?

Incidentally my aunt ( still living) tells me you could put a fist in the hole in the wound on my Grandfathers back And he never claimed any disability or had a S.W.B.

Also Ken on the form numbered 0761 at PRO where it states Transferred to to Class "Z" above that it says To BIF France 24-4-18 so I,m not sure if he went back.

Thank You for you Patience & Kindness

Neil

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29th

He went back to France in 1918. He was transferred to Class Z after the war ended.

Tim D

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Neil,

He was in the 29th Division.

Document 761 shows 'To BEF in France 24-4-1918' This means he was posted back to France although on discharge his Protection Certificate (doc 772) shows his medical category was B1 (Garrison Service Abroad) I suspect 42 AT Coy was a second or third echelon unit.

If you look at document 768 the last two entries show 11/5/18 OC 42 AT Coy 'jd from REBD' (apologies I first read this as Infantry Base Depot) and the next entry dated 25/1/19 with ditto marks for OC 42 AT Coy shows he was granted 14 days leave to (Eng?) land.

You can often enhance the documents with photo editing software to bring up some of the faded entries. On 761 there is an entry date 14-7-16 which obviously refers to his wound it may show the hospital although typically wounded soldiers were transferred from active duty strength to a depot unit.

As he was honourably discharged to the Z Reserve he was not eligible for the SWB but as you say on document 766 he did not claim any disability.

Ken

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Dear Ken

Thank you so much ,Its very kind of you to take time to help & Explain, where were the 29th on the 5/7/1916 when he got shot.

Kind Regards Neil

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I don't know where the Division was on the 5th when he was shot but they were fighting in the Battle of Albert. On the first day of the Somme Battle the Newfoundland Regiment (in)famously suffered the second highest losses of any one unit 26 officers and 658 men which after the war was commemorated by the Newfoundland Memorial (Battle) Park, just inside the Park is the 29th Division Memorial, http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/somme/newfoundland.html

So roughly around Beaumont-Hamel (?)

Ken

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Thanks Again Ken

I have been to the "Park" a couple of times as well as " Annie's" where there is (she claims ) A first Aid post.

I was reading a book about the 47th Division as I was lead to believe that was my Granddads unit, will now have to gen up on the 29th.

Also went to our Essex western front meeting on Monday where the speaker ( Bill Macormick ) gave a Talk on Gommecourt , a very good lecture indeed.

Am going on hols now so wont be pestering you for a few days.

Thanks again Ken your a real Gent.

Neil

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Dear Ken

when I type 3/1st London Field Co in google on the Royal Engineers site it says 47th Division 1/3rd 2/3rd 1/4th London Field co

on the 29th Division its 1/3rd Kent 1/2nd London so Im quiet confused ? was my Grand Father in the 47th Division after all ? sorry to be a pain .

other people seem to be trying to locate the 3/1st London Field Co but to no luck.

Kind Regards Neil

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If you look at the LLT http://www.1914-1918.net/29div.htm as Tim noted at post 2 it shows under Royal Engineers 510th Field Company renamed from 2nd (London) Field Company.

The 3/1st transfer was on 6th October 1916 (doc 761) and although the entry above is illegible apart from the date, 14-7-16 which almost certainly refers to his wound.

There is a blank or illegible line below the 3/1 entry and the next line is the posting to the BEF 24.4.18.

Document 768 shows he was transferred from the OC 1st London Reserve Field Coy (faded rubber stamps) to the 1st Reserve Bn at Chatham so I'd agree with Tim 3/1st (NOT 1/3rd) is a UK Reserve Unit, in all probability 1st London Reserve (3 is often a designation for 3rd Echelon within the TF, e.g. 1/3; 2/3 and 3/3 though I don't know if this is so in this instance).

We do know he was convalescing in the UK for a long period so he could not have been posted to the 1/3rd Field Coy in France in October 1916.

(I also think the March date to France although circumstantial is quite compelling).

Ken

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