Who was Monty's saviour?

[Skipman]

I happened on this, it may have been posted before, but can't find it. An interesting enough tale?

Who was Monty's saviour?

Mike

[Fattyowls]

Mike, another epic find, the Tay valley human search engine strikes again. How do you do it?

Pete.

[hazelclark]

I happened on this, it may have been posted before, but can't find it. An interesting enough tale?

Who was Monty's saviour?

Mike

That is very interesting Mike. In that Montgomery knew that SOMEONE saved him, one would expect him to try to identify the man.

Hazel

[David Filsell]

I think the great man was a little above such things.

[hazelclark]

I think the great man was a little above such things.

That is the reason I made the remark. Although Montgomery always seems to get good reviews, I have never cared for him as person and for the life of me can't understand where the story that "his men loved him" originated.

H

[Guest]

for the life of me can't understand where the story that "his men loved him" originated.

H

Maybe they knew him better than you Hazel I have to say my father served under him, and he thought him a good 'un. Maybe in years to come, like Haig, he will be better thought of?

Cheers Mike

[Steven Broomfield]

My old dad loathed him, having driven him in Cairo in WW2.

[hazelclark]

My old dad loathed him, having driven him in Cairo in WW2.

My father didn't have a good word for him either - mind you, he was at Arnhem.

Maybe they knew him better than you Hazel I have to say my father served under him, and he thought him a good 'un. Maybe in years to come, like Haig, he will be better thought of?

Cheers Mike

Well, the story must have come from somewhere.

H

[Guest]

Well, the story must have come from somewhere.

H

From Steven's dad by the sounds of it.

I probably shouldn't comment, because I don't know enough about him. It will be interesting to see how he is judged in future.

Mike

[Steven Broomfield]

My old dad was a Staff driver in Cairo for a while. He drove Monty to a Conference; Monty made him wait outside in the sun for about 4 hours with no by your leave.

Alexander, on the other hand, my dad loved. He drove Alex, who had an ADC - one of the Wills tobacco family, apparently. My dad drove o wherever, and Alex told him to go and have a cup of tea and come back at a certain time. he then asked if dad had any money. The old man was a Regular, so obviously said no: Alex turned to the ADC and instructed him to give the driver some money, so he held out what my father described as "a wad of Gyppo ackers" (apparently the ADC was "fresh off the boat and still wet behind the knees"), and proferred about ten quid's worth. He asked dad if that was enough ... straight answer "Yes, sir, thank you". Best cup of tea the old dad ever had, I suspect.

He also drove Mountbatten ... he wasn't looking for tea shops, shall we say.

[TimPowell186]

Thanks for finding this very interesting.

Small quiz then - Bernard Montgomery was a son of a man of the cloth - what other Bernard (adjutant in WW1) and also son of a man of the cloth became a general in WW2. Indeed his relationship to Monty has been described as Sir John Moore's to Wellington?

[SiegeGunner]

Please Miss, was it Bernard Freyberg, Miss ...?

[hazelclark]

My old dad was a Staff driver in Cairo for a while. He drove Monty to a Conference; Monty made him wait outside in the sun for about 4 hours with no by your leave.

Alexander, on the other hand, my dad loved. He drove Alex, who had an ADC - one of the Wills tobacco family, apparently. My dad drove o wherever, and Alex told him to go and have a cup of tea and come back at a certain time. he then asked if dad had any money. The old man was a Regular, so obviously said no: Alex turned to the ADC and instructed him to give the driver some money, so he held out what my father described as "a wad of Gyppo ackers" (apparently the ADC was "fresh off the boat and still wet behind the knees"), and proferred about ten quid's worth. He asked dad if that was enough ... straight answer "Yes, sir, thank you". Best cup of tea the old dad ever had, I suspect.

He also drove Mountbatten ... he wasn't looking for tea shops, shall we say.

I think you should write a book. Since everyone concerned has already snuffed it, there shouldn't be too many law suits.

H

[TimPowell186]

I was thinking of General Sir Bernard Paget formerly of the Oxford and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry son of Reverend Francis Paget who in WW2 went to Norway and then was responsible for the early planning of Overlord.

[IPT]

My old dad never liked Monty much either.

Mind you, my dad was Rommel.

[Guest]

My old dad never liked Monty much either.

Mind you, my dad was Rommel.

You're Rommel's love child?

Mike

[IPT]

You're Rommel's love child?

Mike

That's why they called him the desert fox.

[David Filsell]

Chauffer's' views on their passengers are fascinating. I recall a conversation with a government chauffeur he judged his minister 'clients' by those who sat in the front , or excused doing so because they had things to read/work one, and those who sat in the rear in un-companionable silence. A courteous "Good day", or the lack of it, was another indicator.I worked with a guy who had driven Mountbattenburg in India at the time of the British exit. He considered him an utter arrogant sh*t. So its a question of those that can walk with kings and etc.

[Perth Digger]

Maybe Thornton should not be excluded. He could not have got the DCM for the action in which he was killed, unless he DOW several days later, after the official recommendation of an award had been made, in which case he would not have been KIA. You had to be alive at the time of official recommendation in order to get any medal, apart from the VC of course.

Interestingly, a major reason why the rules about medals weren't changed later in the war was because it was felt that those fighting (and dying) in 1914 would have been discriminated against.

Mike

[phil andrade]

Betty Carver was Monty's saviour, at least for those few years that they were married.

During that time Monty became a person who was more companionable and less obnoxious than he was to become after her death.

Today is the 71st anniversary of his most celebrated battle.

Dad was at Alamein, and tended to the view that Monty was a jumped up little squirt. He preferred " The Auk".

As for the episode at Meteren in October 1914, Monty's own words " ...The man lying on me took all the bullets and saved my life.." leave us wondering why he failed to name that man.

I remember reading somewhere - or perhaps hearing on a TV or radio documentary - that Monty, contemplating the imminence of his own demise - told his old ADC Freddie de Guingand " I must get ready to answer to all those men who were killed at Alamein" . You would have thought, wouldn't you, that he might have mentioned the man who lost his own life trying to rescue him twenty eight years before El Alamein ?

Editing here : I've just found a source regarding Monty's comment in his last days. From Stephen Bungay's ALAMEIN, page 237 :

When he awoke one morning in late February 1976, Montgomery said he had had a very bad night . I can't have very long to go now, he explained. I've got to go to meet God - and explain all those men I killed at Alamein.During the night of 24 March, he died.



Phil (PJA)

[squirrel]

Just a thought and not coming down on one side of the fence or the other...Montgomery was seriously wounded so is it possible that he was so far out of things that he was told the story of the man who saved him after he had recovered by someone who didn't know the man's name either?

[hazelclark]

Chauffer's' views on their passengers are fascinating. I recall a conversation with a government chauffeur he judged his minister 'clients' by those who sat in the front , or excused doing so because they had things to read/work one, and those who sat in the rear in un-companionable silence. A courteous "Good day", or the lack of it, was another indicator.I worked with a guy who had driven Mountbattenburg in India at the time of the British exit. He considered him an utter arrogant sh*t. So its a question of those that can walk with kings and etc.

My Uncle served as a junior officer under Mountbatten during the last war and didn't have a good word to say for him. I can't remember exactly, but I think he said he had three ships sunk under him and my Uncle always said he couldn't understand why they kept giving him more ships.

H

Just a thought and not coming down on one side of the fence or the other...Montgomery was seriously wounded so is it possible that he was so far out of things that he was told the story of the man who saved him after he had recovered by someone who didn't know the man's name either?

But don't you think there would be some indication somewhere that he had tried to find out?

H

[Guest exuser1]

Private James also received the DCM , I had a go at researching this episode and it seems that the 2 Warwickshire lads pulled back Montgomery to the shelter of a hedge where he was handed over to the RAMC lads ,so appears a joint effort ? I acquired Private James DCM back in 1995 along with his BWM .

[michaeldr]

is it possible that he was so far out of things that he was told the story of the man who saved him after he had recovered by someone who didn't know the man's name either?

It is

he was so far out of things that when the stretcher bearers finally got to him after about eight hours, it was only by chance that he was seen to be still alive and therefore not buried with the dead. Apparently he did not recover full consciousness until he had reached Herbert Hospital in Woolwich. The first wound was made by a bullet which passed completely through his chest, exiting on his right side and permanently damaging his right lung.

[Guest]

In this interview, Click Brigadier 'Mad Mike' Calvert, who was no fool, talks very highly of Montgomery.

1st interview from 22 minutes to 28.55 and the 2nd interview 4 minutes to 7 minutes.

Many men did not want to talk about their experiences, why should Montgomery be any different?

Mike