801 MT Coy ASC War Diary

[johnboy]

Can you post the entry incase we read it differently? [cav]

[Gardenerbill]

Entries for the 12th and 13th contain the Corps Cav reference:

Also I have evidence in the 9th East Lancs war diary that gas was occasionally used on the Doiran front, I have seen a comment somewhere that it was ineffective as it gathered in the bottom of ravines and valleys so soldiers simply climbed up out of the way.

[johnboy]

Looks like cav, and two mentions of charcoal. Bit of mystery,

[Gardenerbill]

The 801st are moving charcoal from Lahana to Corps cav daily now.

The company are Corps troop supply and the yeomanry units are now attached to the Corps.

Then this '1 lorry K61¹/₂ charcoal to K70 dump.'.

Changing the subject another interesting entry:

Repairs completed of Corps Signal Electric lighting &ct

[johnboy]

Thanks Mark.

So could be for forges. Depending on the number of horses it seems a lot. Would they have waggons? Metal rims?

[Rockdoc]

I don't think any GS wagon had rubber tyres and the field guns also used wagon-style wooden wheels so replacing the tyres would be a fairly regular thing, I'm sure, especially in an area, like the Macedonian front, where the soils are thin and the substrate is limestone so wear was likely to be high. I'm sure that the horses, whether draught animals or saddle-mounts. would have needed a steady supply of shoes.

Keith

[Gardenerbill]

If the forges were using charcoal (coal may have been in short supply) then it looks like the 801st have taken over supply in this area from another transport unit. As well as horse shoes and wagon rims, the forges presumably made other metal objects, tools and so as required. There were also thousands of mules used for transportation on this front and presumably they all needed shoes as well.

[johnboy]

Do we know how the lococ were fuelled??

[Rockdoc]

There is no indigenous coal in Macedonia. There are lignite deposits but nothing that would be of any use to the Allies, as far as I can see. It's certainly possible to run steam locos on charcoal or coke. Very early locos used these fuels because coal made too much smoke. The invention of the brick arch in the firebox overcame that problem and coal became the predominant fuel because it was plentiful and the improved combustion allowed it to use the volatiles as well as the basic carbon. I would guess that modifications would be needed to the ashpan and grate to alter the air-flow before charcoal could be used but probably nothing that a well-equipped workshop couldn't handle.

Keith

[Gardenerbill]

The last of the daily deliveries of charcoal to Corps Cav is on the 22nd of December. Suggests perhaps the charcoal is being stock piled.

Following on from an earlier request on the 12th of December that you can see in the image in post #127, this entry suggests that Corps H.Q. have approved the idea:

Provisional Est^b for Decauville G.S. (SD) 299 of 20/12/17 received from 16^th Corps.

[Gardenerbill]

At the start of January 1918

‘8 men transferred from 287 A.T. Coy RE for duty on tractors’

There are now daily entries detailing the tractor activity and I am beginning to think these are Ford petrol tractors and repairs probably means repairs to the Decauville line:

'Tractor detail 2, repairs 4, stand by 1.'

Straw is delivered to C.C.S. units:

'3 lorries 40^th C.C.S. to 27^th C.C.S. with straw.'

Lieutenant Waithman is replaced by 2^nd Lieutenant Hawkins:

'2/Lt F.F. Hawkins A.S.C. posted to this Coy as workshop officer from 765 M.T. Coy '

'Lt W.W. Waithman ACS Posted to 244 M.T. Coy as workshop officer from this Coy.'

The fighting skills of the men need to be maintained:

'B.M.T.D. visited camp to inspect Coy arrangements made for musketry instruction. '

Finally Charcoal is delivered once more:

'1 lorry LIKOVAN for charcoal to Y.M.C.A. K70. '

[Gardenerbill]

End of January 1918 and another lorry is named:

'Dennis Lorry 4223 in for repair.'

Brushwood is collected presumably for fires

'1 lorry K61¹/₂ for brushwood to coy.'

There are a couple of promotions:

'Appointments. 1 L/Cpl apptd a/cpl. With pay. 1 Pre apptd a/cpl with pay. 1 Pre apptd a/L/Cpl with pay for completion of establishment.'

Does anyone know what a solder oven is and a P.B. man

'8 P.B. men taken on strength for work on solder oven. '

'1 man sent to 778 Coy for musketry instruction. '

'1 P.B. man returned to 711 Coy (Employment) surplus to requirements.'

[Gardenerbill]

Answering my own question again! (this is becoming a habit) I checked in Michael Youngs A.S.C. book and class A men ( i.e. fit for front line duty) were being taken out of A.S.C. units and replaced by class B men. Class B were subdivided into B, PB and PU, and Class PB were ' those who worked permanently in the base due to age or infirmity (wounds/injuries).'

The quote is from page 92.

[Rockdoc]

This would be after the withdrawal of significant British forces for use elsewhere and there was a desperate need for fit men in some areas. The Class B men were also called garrison troops and even infantry units had some exchanges made. In UTDE there's a record of one unit in the Krusha Balkans, a very quiet zone, who were sent such men but they found some had shockingly poor eyesight, one had a deformed hand that meant he couldn't hold a rifle to fire it and another had abdominal problems that meant he couldn't lie on his stomach! Such men had been used in base areas as storesmen, clerks and suchlike, where they could do a useful job despite their disabilities. To send them to the front lines, even to quiet areas, really does show the straits the Salonika Army found itself in.

Keith

[Gardenerbill]

Googling Solder Oven came up with this in wiki:

Reflow soldering is a process in which a solder paste (a sticky mixture of powdered solder and flux) is used to temporarily attach one or several electrical components to their contact pads, after which the entire assembly is subjected to controlled heat, which melts the solder, permanently connecting the joint.

So the question is, was this technique used as early as 1918?

[Gardenerbill]

...and here's the actual solder oven entry:

[Gardenerbill]

Posted Solder Oven as a topic on the Paraphernalia miscellaneous sub forum, and received a number of interesting replies.

The conclusion being that repair and even fabrication of vehicle radiators seems to be the most likely use.

Here's the link:

 

 

[Rockdoc]

Having read the other thread, I'd say that it's doubtful the radiators were soldered together inside the oven. When all said and done, solder is a fluid when it's applied so it will be affected by gravity and if you want to seal the bottom header tank, for example, it will be hot enough to melt any solder on any other part of the radiator and remove an existing seal! On the other hand, you don't solder, braze or weld large metal objects when they are cold. The amount of metal involved will draw any heat away very quickly and produce poor results because the molten metal will chill and produce a skin before it's had a chance to flow into the irregularities on the surface and key itself in. I think it's far more likely that the oven was used to pre-heat the parts that were to be soldered to ensure that the solder flowed well and the operative would be able to complete the task of soldering quickly and reliably. The temperature of the oven could be considerably lower than that required to melt solder and still produce a good result.

Thinking further, using the oven as I've suggested would allow repairs to be made where only a small amount of work needed to be done rather than a full reconstruction. Early radiators don't have micro-bore piping because they used thermal syphoning to circulate the water around the engine. There were no thermostats and, I believe, no water pumps. To increase the surface area exposed to the air, the pipework had dozens of thin rings of steel soldered into place and you wouldn't want to have to put all of them back again every time something needed doing.

Keith

[johnboy]

Could this be where the loads of charcoal comes in?

[Rockdoc]

It's possible. As was said in the other thread, you need to heat the soldering irons as well so the oven could be a fair size. You most definitely do not want any kind of pollution around solder so using charcoal as opposed to wood would make sense. The surfaces of the items to be worked on would have been chemically cleaned with a liquid flux and the irons were routinely quenched to get rid of any build up of crud. Unlike the self-fluxing solders we use today, the flux would be applied first and, perhaps, washed off before the iron was used with a stick of solid solder. I can remember one my Dad had kicking about in his toolkit that was about 1/2 inch by 3/16 inch so you could flood an area if you knew what you were doing. Because they weren't maintained at temperature, the irons tended to be quite heavy so that the head would retain a working temperature long after it was taken from the heat-source.

Keith

[Gardenerbill]

Solder Oven

To sum up on the solder oven debate it would seem likely that the oven was general purpose for heating soldering irons, heating parts ready for soldering and perhaps for heating lead for bodywork repairs. Back to the diary.

Feb 1918

Orders are received from the Base Depot to take command of 739^th Company, it doesn’t say why presumably their O/C was incapacitated most likely from sickness.

‘Received orders from B.M.T.D. to take supervision of 739 M.T. Coy A.S.C. & to send 2/Lt F.R. Allen to relieve workshop officer.’

Then a Captain Rees arrives to take command of the 739th:

'Capt. M. Rees A.S.C. Relieved O.C. 801 M.T. Coy A.S.C. of supervision of 739 M.T. Coy. A.S.C. but, retained2/Lt F.R. Allen for temporary duty.'

There is a lot of sickness, 8 men in total are hospitalised during the month of February alone. 1 man goes on leave to U.K. and one on leave to Salonika.

Each month the C.O. Captain Holland signs the final diary page of the month, in February he appears to have been promoted and signs Major H.N. Holland.

[Gardenerbill]

March 1918

The company takes over work from 28^th F.A.W.U. (Field Ambulance Works Unit?) and is now repairing cycles, I am sure I have seen a picture on the IWM website of a cycle unit in the Struma Valley.

2/Lt Allen returns from workshop duty with the 734^th and an N.C.O. is sent to reed thatching class, presumably for repairing roofs.

So far this winter there has been no mention of bad weather then on the 28^th:

'Heavy blizzard of snow causing serious trouble with transport.'

At the end of the month a note is added relating to store keeping problems:

'Owing to pressure of work involved in store keeping books etc. which have to be kept in accordance with D.S.T. memo 65 it has been found necessary'

'to apply through 16 C.H.Q. to D.S.T. for additional store personnel 1 Cpl storekeeper 2 store clerks letter 801/35/1 dd 31/3/18'

'The war establishment of this unit does not provide for storekeeper or clerks for technical stores.'

[Rockdoc]

There were Cyclists Battalions on the Struma. We had a talk on them at a SCS AGM a couple of years ago, called Up The Struma With The Gas-pipe Cavalry. They were very useful for patrol work in that area because it's so flat. There was conventional cavalry, too. It was said these could range further but were more vulnerable to snipers (the Struma is fertile and untended crops provided great hiding places) because the trooper was so much higher on horseback and, hence, more visible.

Keith

[Gardenerbill]

This is the photograph of the cyclists:

[Gardenerbill]

April 1918

In April there is a lot of coming and going of men:

‘1 man transferred to A.S.C. M.T. from Labour Corps.‘

‘2 men reported from B.M.T.D. for duty.’

‘3 P.B. men attached for duty & rations.’

‘1 man ret’d to B.M.T.D. surplus to Est.’

‘3 P.B. ret’d to 820 employment Coy.’

‘2/Lt A.E. Metcalfe Gibson A.S.C. transferred to 338 M.T. Coy A.S.C.’

‘1 man to N^o2 Inftry Base Depot to rejoin Unit.’

Perhaps the most interesting of these are the following:

‘6 Maltese joined for fatigues only, with view of tractor driving.’

2 men go for trade tests presumably in lieu of being promoted to Artificer

‘1 man to R.E. Base Park for trade test. ‘

‘1 man to 660 M.T. Coy. A.S.C. for trade test.’

Gas is obviously still seen as a threat:

‘1 officer and 1 N.C.O. sent to gas school for instruction.’

In mid April the Company starts to send 1 lorry a day to the Corps gardens, I assume this is Gardens as in Market Gardens. Only 2 men and 1 NCO are hospitalised this month and 2 more men go on leave 1 to Salonika and 1 to the base area.