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Remembered Today:

801 MT Coy ASC War Diary


Gardenerbill

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Summer hay harvesting begins with an entry on the 27th of June: ‘To see S.S.O. XXVII Div re hay which was to be collected from the plain.’ Then on the 29th3641, 3642, 3643. 3645, 3646, 3647, proceeded to Nigoslav for carting hay.’ And ‘1 officer 15 N.C.O’s & men proceeded on detachment to Nigoslav.’

Nigoslav seems to have been the centre for hay production. The detachment is joined by ‘18 N.C.O’s &men from 686 M.T. Coy’ on the 30th and hay carting begins in earnest

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It just emphasises how important fodder was to the armies in WW1 and the problems supplying Salonika from home.

Keith

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Into July and the company are collecting hay from villages on the plain at Patrik, Suhabanja and Fitoki.

Then this interesting entry: ‘Men began going ill with sand fly fever, not serious , but it keeps them away 5 or 6 days’

A new officer joins the company from the 2/24th London Reg 2nd Lieut. C. Worsaw.

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Most of July was taken up with hay making activity on the plain around Nigoslav. Then on the 27th of July this entry:

'Started to go to see O.C. 40 C.C.S. but Flying Corps lorry which had been struck by lightning blocked the area it carried 500 gals of petrol & some oil it burned for 21/2 hrs – gear box melted – front wheels only part undamaged.'

Has anyone seen any other references to this incident.

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That's a very peculiar entry because none of the AA Section Diaries mentions a thunderstorm near that date.

Keith

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Into August and the hay making is still in full swing. A car is brought in with a broken axle. A new officer, Lt Waithman, is mentioned taking the Corps commander on Ford Decauville tractor. There is another visit from the M.O. who declares all satisfactory.

Then this entry on the 12th5 lorries 30cwt exchanged for 5 Peerless Lorries 3ton. Napier lorries being inserviceable for work performed. {initials} 74 A.A.S.’

I think this means that 5 of the 801st Companies 3 ton Peerless lorries are exchanged for 5 of the 74th A.A.S. Napier 30cwt lorries. This is the first mention of lorry makes, well I think that's exciting.

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For the transport of stores an exchange of 30cwts to 3 tonners would have made more sense. Carrying hay was more a space capacity than weight,

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There appears to have been a change from 3-tonners to 30-cwt lorries in the AA Sections. I haven't found anything saying when or why it happened but, for example, 99th AAS - my Grandfather's unit - was put into action in mid-July, 1917, and it had 3 x 3-ton Peerless GS lorries, a Sunbeam light car and a Douglas motorcycle. On being disbanded, in February 1919, it handed in 4 x 30-cwt Daimler lorries, a Ford van and a Douglas motorcycle. I would imagine that the utilisation of the GS lorries by the Sections was limited and it was decided to make the swap so that the 3-tonners could be used more fittingly. The roads around Salonika were reasonable, as far as I can tell, so the change wouldn't have caused them too much inconvenience. In the north end of the Struma Valley, where things were not as good, the extra grunt of the bigger lorry may have been vital in keeping things moving. Sometimes not even that was enough.

When 98th AAS was moved from Guvesne to the southern end of the Struma Valley, its supply chain came via Stavros to a dump at Kar Tasli Derbend, across the bay from the port. The Section tried to use its lorries but eventually scrounged a number of mules, which were much more suited to the condition of the "roads".

Keith

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Keith, are you sure the AA sections swapped 3 ton for 30 cwt? It looks the other way around to me and the next entry on the 15th of August seems to suggest 30 cwt are swapped for 3 tonners:

4 Napier lorries (30cwt) 4 Thorneycroft lorries returned To B.M.T.D. in exchange for 8 Peerless lorries (3ton) & 1 Daimler lorry sent to 74th A.A.S. and 91st A.A.S.

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Keith, are you sure the AA sections swapped 3 ton for 30 cwt? It looks the other way around to me and the next entry on the 15th of August seems to suggest 30 cwt are swapped for 3 tonners:

4 Napier lorries (30cwt) 4 Thorneycroft lorries returned To B.M.T.D. in exchange for 8 Peerless lorries (3ton) & 1 Daimler lorry sent to 74th A.A.S. and 91st A.A.S.

That's how I read it re my post#82

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Yes, I'm quite certain because I've taken the information from 99th's Diary. I read your entry as 74th having swapped their original 3-tonners some time before and, having found them inadequate, persuaded the higher ups to allow them to revert. 24th definitely had 3-tonners to begin with because they swap parts around to keep the gun lorries moving. If 99th had them then I think it would be very unlikely that the other Sections arriving in the first few months of 1917 did not.

Keith

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The 801 diary entries are a bit ambiguous and could be read either way so I am happy to go with the AA sections preferring the 30cwt lorries.

The entry in post #84 could be read:

4 Napier lorries (30cwt) 4 Thorneycroft lorries returned To B.M.T.D. in exchange for 8 Peerless lorries (3ton)

The 801st now have the 8 peerless lorries

& 1 Daimler lorry sent to 74th A.A.S. and 91st A.A.S.

1 Daimler to each AA section!

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I don't think so. I read this as four Napier 30-cwt and four Thornycroft three-ton lorries being exchanged for eight three-ton Peerless lorries and one Daimler 30-cwt lorry, which were split between 74th and 91st AAS. These were the two Sections that were based in the Struma Valley from their arrival in the theatre.

91st AAS almost certainly had one or more Thornycroft lorries. They had Thornycroft gun lorries when they arrived in Salonika, at the start of 1917, because they exchanged components with the gun lorry. I'm a bit puzzled as to why they'd exchange them unless spares had become scarce for them and supplies for the Peerless ones were more plentiful. The gun lorries rarely moved in the Struma so spares were less of a problem for them. 74th had Packard gun lorries but their Diary doesn't mention the GS lorries on their strength.

Unfortunately, neither Section records anything about this exchange, however it was carried out.

Keith

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The Decauville petrol tractor now has a name “Hustler”. On the 18th lorry 3644 is sent to help evacuate refugees of the great fire from Salonica to country along the Monastir road.

It looks like the hay making is finished, men and lorries are returning to their units (B.M.T.D. and 685 M.T. Coy).

2nd Lt Cook who was in charge of the hay detachment returns to B.M.T.D.

There is another entry relating to the lorry exchanges:

'Napier lorry returned to B.M.T.D. in exchange for lorries sent to 74th A.A.S.'

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By late August the hay collecting has stopped, the company is back to supplying unit bases along the Seres road; particularly the Derbyshire Yeomanry at K70 and the Inniskillin Fusiliers at K72. A man is taken on from 27th Division to assist with construction of Decauville Locomotives, perhaps a railway engineer before the war.

Were the Decauville locomotives delivered in kit form to be constructed on site?

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The locos probably weren't sent over in kit form but they would almost certainly be shipped with all the motion (coupling rods, valve gear etc) removed. A lot of damage can be caused moving steam locos out of steam. The lubricants tend to be very viscous and use steam to heat them and, in some cases, carry the lubricant to the cylinders. If you take all the rods off, all you have to do is keep the axle box oil reservoirs topped up.

Keith

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There are some place names in August and September that I am struggling with, I have scoured the trench maps around the Seres road and drawn a blank.

post-91681-0-32608500-1388152098_thumb.j

This one looks like to me like Manudli:

3644 Rations, 3647 towed car 577 in from {Manudli?} track, (broken axle shaft)

This next one looks like Kassica:

post-91681-0-62697700-1388152221_thumb.j

Last line:

To D.S.T. To B.M.T.D. to take over {Kassica?} for 40th C.C.S.

Any ideas what and where these are would be greatly appreciated.

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To D.S.T. To B.M.T.D. to take over {Kassica?} for 40th C.C.S.

Brigade motor transport depot?

CCS is usually Casualty Clearing Station

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3644 Rations, 3647 towed car 577 in from {Manudli?} track, (broken axle shaft)

I think that "Manudli" should be "Mahmudli" (today's Triantafyllia) (40 59 02.28, 23 20 52.87) a small village just a couple of miles south of Seres Road between Lahanas and Orljiak.

To D.S.T. To B.M.T.D. to take over {Kassica?} for 40th C.C.S.

Kassica (?) is a puzzle, but here's what I've found about the 40 CCS.

"No. 40 CCS. was moved from its site on the Kirechkoi- Hortajkoi road, in June 1916, to Guvesne on the Seres road, but after November of that year occupied positions near Orliak, in the foothills overlooking the Struma Valley. At the end of June 1918 it was transferred to the Xllth Corps area on the extreme British left, and opened for the final operations near Gumendje Station, on the right bank of the Vardar, where the railway crossed the river from Karasouli"

History of the Great War, Medical Services General History Vol. IV, Macpherson, Mitchell, London 1924 (...freely available in the public domain and a very good reading too..)

Happy Holidays

Yiannis

In Post #90 you wrote "...to assist with construction of Decauville Locomotives...". Is there any additional information?

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Hi Yiannis,

I like your suggestion of Mahmudli, I have found it on the Orljak 1:50000 Military map (SCS trench maps). I am sure I have seen a reference to a place called Kausica somewhere does that mean anything to you?

There are some more Decauville references:

11th Aug

3644, Rations, also fetch Decauville engine from Likovan & stores.

Then the one in post #90 (see below)

post-91681-0-57317800-1388168036_thumb.j

The last line looks like:

To ___ Depot __ again re Decauville Engine Parts

23rd Aug

To D.S.T., R.E. Base Park, B.M.T.D. & Heavy repair shops re Decvlle Engine parts.

25th Aug

1 man Reported from 27th Div: to assist construction of Decauville Locomotives.

I will keep posting as I find them.

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Thanks for the posts Mark,

well the only Kausica/Kassica I'm aware of, is "Causica" (pronounced Tsaousitsa), the only through station on the standard-gauge line between Kilindir and Karasouli and the beginning of the Decauville railway to Janes, built by men from the 26th Division in October 1916. (there's a "Caussica Station" topic in Salonika & the Balkans)

Do you think the 801 MT would have gone that far?

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Some more Decauville references:

post-91681-0-91007300-1388234677_thumb.j

The last line here looks like 'To D.S.T. to get castings for bushes for {?}'

then 'Steps for Decauville Engine' of possibly 'Stops for Decauville Sidings' maybe.

On the 11th of September:

'1 lorry to K70 with Decauville Eng No 3.'

K70 is a Decauville railhead by the Seres road about 4k south of Orljak.

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Thanks Mark, yet another interesting post :)

I think it probably reads 'Stops for Decauville Sidings' meaning buffer stops.

The K70 railhead is Gorazanli (Kalokastron) along the Struma valley light railway. Regarding the "Decauville eng No 3" entry, since WDLR locos had been given 3 or 4 digit numbers, I presume the author simply noted down the last digit; no time for formalities I suppose. I'll have to check my number lists for possible matches...

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I don't know if it makes anything any clearer but the first word after 'bushes for' is Heavy. It sounds as if these bushes are machined by the Company from basic castings. That implies, whatever the final application, each bush has to be individually fitted. I think it's unlikely that one casting would cover a multitude of bushes and they must be fairly large. A small bush would get knocked up from a piece of bar-stock.

Keith

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