Acts of Bravery - how the medals allocated?

[Thomas08]

My grandfather Captain Godwin Banwell served with the 1/5th Leicestershire Regiment. He was awarded the Military Cross and Bar. According to family folklore he was recommended for the Victoria Cross. Can anyone explain

1. Who approved the awarding of medals?

2. Was there any guidance as to how an act of bravery should be graded? For example the difference between an award of Military Cross and Victoria Cross.

3. Regarding the folklore part of this question if my grandfather had been recommended for the Victoria Cross would there be any record of this?

Many thanks

Jon

[centurion]

Obviously by triplicating the citations

[Kath]

Obviously by triplicating the citations

?

Kath.

[Old Owl]

Hi Jon,

Your GF may well have been recommended for the V.C., but from my experience it seems that these recommendations have not survived the rigours of time.

I have almost certain proof that one officer, whom I have researched, was indeed recommended for the V.C.--he was however awarded an MID in lieu of same. He was killed in action on 16th September,1914, following his death his Colonel wrote: "Dr Huggan was extraordinarily gallant, and two days before he was killed he was recommended for the Victoria Cross for organising and leading a band of volunteers to remove a number of wounded from a barn which had been set on fire by German shell-fire". Also a memorial to him in the Abbey grounds at Jedburgh is inscribed: "If ever I met a brave man he was" -- Lieut. Col. Fielding commanding battalion.

It is just possible that some mention of this may appear in the local newspaper of the town in which your GF lived, ie 'Local officer recommended for the Victoria Cross'. This may be the only 'proof' that your family folklore is indeed correct!!

I believe that the recommendation for a V.C. had to come from an officer commanding the soldiers battalion, although the recommendation may have been instigated initially by one or more officers of lower rank who had actually witnessed the act, or acts, of bravery.

Any such recommendations were submitted to higher authority for scrutiny and were then either accepted or rejected, and if the latter, they were then subsequently downgraded to a lower award.

Hope this helps.

Robert

[hazelclark]

Obviously by triplicating the citations

Did you by any chance get out the wrong side of bed this morning?

H

[Thomas08]

Robert thank you

Does anyone know how a oficers recommendation for an award was actually approved?

[IRC Kevin]

All the citations I've seen for 1/4th King's Own were approved (or not) and signed personally by the Brigade Commander- that applies for other ranks and officers.

Edited to add:- this applies for both 'immediate' awards and King's Birthday/New Year awards.

[squirrel]

Instructions Regarding Recommendations for Honours and Rewards published by the Military Secretary's Branch gives the requirements. Army Form W.3121 was the correct form to use and 3 copies as Centurian says - original and duplicate to the Military Secretary at GHQ and the third copy retained by "the recommending authority - or as otherwise directed by the Army Commander".

[Thomas08]

Many thanks Kevin and Squirrel and to Centurian now that I understand his earlier response!

[hazelclark]

Obviously by triplicating the citations

My apologies - seems someone understood, but it sounded cranky to me!

H

[squirrel]

Thomas08

this section may be relevant for you:

Recomemendations not approved.

50. Recommendations for "immediate" reward which are not approved should not be resubmitted. All such recommendations are disposed of in one way or another by the Military Secretary at the time they are submitted and the decision of the Commander-in-Chief is communicated to the Armies, etc., which submitted them.

51. If recommendations for immediate reward are not approved, the decision of the Commander-inChief as to the disposal of the recommendation should not, in any circumstances, be communicated to the Officer or man concerned.

[nthornton1979]

It is just possible that some mention of this may appear in the local newspaper of the town in which your GF live, ie 'Local officer recommended for the Victoria Cross'. This may be the only 'proof' that your family folklore is indeed correct!!

And if you did find such an article I wouldn't believe it unless I had further evidence. The amount of innaccuracies the papers printed is unbelievable - most of which came from the soldiers family via hearsay/letters home etc.

I have dozens of innaccuries from papers where information printed about medals is incorrect.

It's certainly possible that he was put in for the V.C but you may struggle to find proof.

Neil

Neil

[Staffsyeoman]

It is far easier for WW2, where recommendations still survive - and I have seen several downgraded from VC (one to a DSO downgraded at Corps level and confirmed at Army level). Recommendations for WW1 for Australians still survive but that, of course, hardly helps you. Divisional commanders had some latitude in determining/approving lower level awards (such as the Military Cross) but the VC would ultimately have to be referred to the War Office and thence to Buckingham Palace for the King's approval.

[Stoppage Drill]

And if you did find such an article I wouldn't believe it unless I had further evidence. The amount of innaccuracies the papers printed is unbelievable - most of which came from the soldiers family via hearsay/letters home etc.

I have dozens of innaccuries from papers where information printed about medals is incorrect.

Neil

That's true. A man I follow was definitely recommended for the VC for an action in August 1896; I have seen a testimonial letter written in 1902 by the recommending officer, "Daddy" Plumer, no less, where he confirms the fact.

When my man was appointed to be Chief Constable of Wiltshire in 1908 the usually reliable Devizes Gazette reported that he was, in fact, a holder of the Cross.

What do they put in curries, by the way ?