Guest NicoleGent Posted 9 November , 2015 Share Posted 9 November , 2015 Hi Alan, I am hoping you might be able to check for details regarding New Zealand Cpl C Sciascia 10/518, Wellington Infantry Regiment, whom I believe was taken on board the Assaye on 8 Sept 1915. Is it known where the ship sailed from on her way to Egypt - ANZAC Cove, Lemnos? Any image of Sciascia entry greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Nicole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 10 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2015 Hi Nicole Thanks for getting in touch, I see it is your first post, a warm welcome to the Forum. The Admissions and Discharge Book entry is below: Index No: 1390 Regiment, Battalion or Company: NZR Squadron, Battery or Company: Wellington Regimental Number: 10/518 Rank: Corporal Surname, First Name or Initials: Sciascia, C. Completed Years of Age: 23 Completed Years of Service: 1 Completed Months with the Field Force: 4 (months) Diseases: Enteritis Date of Admission: (8/9/15) Ward: Hatch Religion: (C of E) The Admissions and Discharge Book does not state where the men were picked up from. A sample of other Regiments noted on this page include 4 Worcs, 9 Warwicks, 10 Hants, and 1 KOSB, as well as 2 AIF, 16 AIF, 20 AIF and NZMC. I don't have any photographs of casualties, but you may like to start another post in this section of the Forum specifically asking for a photograph or perhaps start a new post in the Soldiers section of the Forum, someone may be able to help. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 10 November , 2015 Share Posted 10 November , 2015 Alan I see the entry above shows the religion "C of E" I am doing some research on the 10th (Irish) Div. Two authors claim that the English drafts used to make up the numbers of the Irish Battalions were predominantly Roman Catholics - something I am fairly sure is not quite correct. How easy is it to trawl your HMHS records for, say, Leinster Regt* casualties or Connaught Rangers* Casualties and get a rough idea of the number of C of E v Roman Catholics for these two units? I use the Leinster and the Connaught Rangers as the examples as they each had only one battalion in theatre between Aug and Oct 1915, so the samples will be tightly defined by unit, battalion and time. Any pointers would be welcome. If it is too big an ask, could you let me now what the WO reference is for the files so I can peruse them next time I slog up to TNA. Many thanks. MG * Some preliminary work based on the fatal casualties indicates both the 6th Leinsters and 5th Connaugh Rangers took in a few hundred Englishmen to make up numbers in Sep 114. These men appear in the CWGC data with their former English regiments shown. Scaling these up implies perhaps one in every five Gallipoli casualties in these two battalions may have been English recruits drafted from a number of English regiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 10 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2015 Hi Martin It's no trouble, I've transcribed all 9 Admissions and Discharge Books into Excel/Word hence search is fairly easy. I think the Excel idea came from a post you made. I'm not sure the sample I have is large enough, but for the Regiments you were looking for it is as follows: MH106 1909 None MH106 1910 6th Leinster CE 1No, RC 0No. 2nd Connaught CE 0No, RC 1No. MH 106 1911 6th Leinster CE 2No, RC 2No. MH106 1912 None MH106 1913 5th Connaught CE 0No, RC 1No. MH 106 1914 None MH 106 1915 None MH 106 1935 There are 5No. 6th Leinster, 1No. 5th Connaught and 1No. 6th Connaught but the religion is not given. MH 106 1936 The rear half of this Admissions and Discharge book has a large number of troops that were being disembarked at Bombay thus not evacuations from Gallipoli but it has 1st Connaught CE 9 No., RC 12 No. and 1 not given. I can let you have name, rank and number etc., if you need them. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 10 November , 2015 Share Posted 10 November , 2015 Alan Thanks. As you say, a very small sample, but interesting nevertheless. I am not sure I can extrapoltae from such a small sample, but I am extremely grateful nevertheless. I am slightly confused by the Codes... Do the last four digits refer to a year? I had assumed it was all for 1915. The last four digits all seem to be years?? Or is that simply a coincidence. Edit: by 1936 these units had been disbanded so I assume not. Separately I would be interested (if it is not asking too much of course) if your spreadsheet can generate the total number of CofE and total Number of RC recorded for the units of the other Southern Regiments (RDF, RMF, RIRegt)10th Irish Div. Not sure if your spreadsheet can differentiate by Battalion i.e count 6th RDF and 7th RDF but not 1st RDF (29th div) ditto 6th and 7th RMF but not 1st RMF.... Perfectly understand if this is an ask too far. Regards MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 10 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2015 Martin The codes are merely the NA/Kew references. I'll get back to you on the other Regiments, if the Battalion and religion is mentioned I will have it. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 10 November , 2015 Share Posted 10 November , 2015 Martin The codes are merely the NA/Kew references. I'll get back to you on the other Regiments, if the Battalion and religion is mentioned I will have it. Alan Thanks Alan, that is very kind. To be clear I am looking at 6th Bn RMF 7th Bn RMF 6th Bn RDF 7th Bn RDF All in 10th (Irish) Div but not 1st Bn RMF or 1st Bn RDF (29th Div). the 6th and 7th Bns all took large drafts of Englishmen in Sep 1914 who will appear as casualties at Gallipoli. For example between the 6th and 7th Bns RMF there were at least 75 fatal casualties (27% of all fatalities) at Gallipoli from men who had previously served in English Regiments. I would expect these to show through in the non-fatal casualty/evacuation data. Also 34% of these battalion's Gallipoli fatalities were born in England and 35% enlisted in England. The numbers that were both born and enlisted in England unsurprisingly have a 97% correlation. In 1911 roughly 5% of the English population was RC. If religion is recorded in the casualties, and there were 34% English born, we would expect roughly a third of the men C of E. I am curious to see if the non-fatal casualties bear this out. Regards MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 10 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2015 Martin Again very a small sample, a total of 103 men, however the numbers are 6th RDF: CE 1No. RC 9No. Presbyterian 1No. Religion Not Given 13No. 7th RDF: CE 6No. RC 3No. Religion Not Given 4No. RDF Battalion Not Given: CE 0No. RC 1No. Religion Not Given 2No. 6th RMF: CE 5No. + 1 Died at Sea. RC 9No. Religion Not Given 16No. 7th RMF: CE 4No. RC 12 No + 1 Died at Sea. Presbyterian 1No. Religion Not Given 1No. RMF Battalion Not Given: CE 2No. RC 4No. Religion Not Given 2No. There are a handful of men from other Regiments such as 3rd Dorsets, 3rd Norfolks, 5 R Irish etc., that were attached to the Battalions but I have not included those. If you need them let me know. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 10 November , 2015 Share Posted 10 November , 2015 (edited) On 11/10/2015 at 17:24, alan two said: Martin Again very a small sample, a total of 103 men, however the numbers are 6th RDF: CE 1No. RC 9No. Presbyterian 1No. Religion Not Given 13No. 7th RDF: CE 6No. RC 3No. Religion Not Given 4No. RDF Battalion Not Given: CE 0No. RC 1No. Religion Not Given 2No. 6th RMF: CE 5No. + 1 Died at Sea. RC 9No. Religion Not Given 16No. 7th RMF: CE 4No. RC 12 No + 1 Died at Sea. Presbyterian 1No. Religion Not Given 1No. RMF Battalion Not Given: CE 2No. RC 4No. Religion Not Given 2No. There are a handful of men from other Regiments such as 3rd Dorsets, 3rd Norfolks, 5 R Irish etc., that were attached to the Battalions but I have not included those. If you need them let me know. Regards Alan Alan. Thank you. I am in your debt. Where religion is given, I make this: .........RDF ....RMF ...Tot ...% CE: .....7....... 10....... 17 ..33% RC: ..12 ........22 .......34 ..66% Tot ...19 ........32 .......51 100% Interestingly this is equivalent in number to a 10% sample of all 6th and 7th Bn RMF and RDF fatalities at Gallipoli. It is not statistically robust but intriguingly close to the 30/70 English/Irish split alluded to by Cooper. Due to the small size of the sample it can never be conclusive but perhaps enough to suggest the English RC concept is a figment of the imagination. MG Edited 3 April , 2017 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NicoleGent Posted 11 November , 2015 Share Posted 11 November , 2015 Hi Alan, Thanks so much for the quick response, which confirms what I had thought. The 'image' I was after was the one of the entry, which you kindly included - thanks. There are several photographs of the Assaye on the internet should anyone on this thread be interested. Thanks again, Nicole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 11 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2015 You are both more than welcome. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David26 Posted 19 January , 2016 Share Posted 19 January , 2016 Hi Alan, I am trying to compile a list of as many of the men who served in 58th Bde RFA as I can, and wondered if the records of HMHS Assaye would have notes the specific brigades (or even batteries) for the artillerymen they treated? If so, is there any chance you would be prepared to provide a list of those from 58th Bde who passed through the Assaye? All best wishes, David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 20 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2016 Hi David Only 2 Other Ranks from 58th Brigade RFA recorded on Assaye. AUBREY, C. Caradoc. No.82429. HYDE, T. Thomas. No.10933, 'B' Battery. You are probably already aware that there are 3 Other Ranks mentioned in the War Diary which is available on Ancestry. One received a GCM but was later reduced in the ranks to Gunner; quite a number of Officers though. There are 4 Other Ranks at Gallipoli who are commemorated on the CGWC web-site. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David26 Posted 20 January , 2016 Share Posted 20 January , 2016 Hi Alan, that's really kind. I didn't have either Aubrey or Hyde, so that's two more! I've got about 300 names so far, of which about 50 are officers, the rest ORs, so yes, finding officers has tended to be easier than the ORs. Not all 300 were at Gallipoli, some clearly joined in the later years of the war. About half the names come from the CWGC website, with most of the rest from Ancestry or the War Diaries, but I've also got a few from a variety of other sources including AVLs and even the British Jewry Book of Honour. (I didn't know the last even existed, but I guess that's the power of Google!). Thanks again, David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emjayen Posted 22 February , 2016 Share Posted 22 February , 2016 Hi Alan, A great resource to have - well done! I am interested in Pte John Hegarty 24154 1st Battalion Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers who died of dysentry on HMHS Assaye on either 3 or 30 November 1915 and is commemorated on the Helles Memorial. He was the third brother to die in 6 months. Any info you have would be greatly appreciated. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 23 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 23 February , 2016 Hi Michael Thanks for your post. The surname spelling is different but your casualty is listed. He died at 10.50pm on 30th November and was committed, the term buried is used, to the sea approximately 20 miles North of Alexandria. The co-ordinates of the place are given, hence the attached map below. The date is not stated when the ship left Cape Helles, but the last casualty was admitted on 27th November. The full listing is as follows: Index No: 60 Regiment, Battalion or Company: 1 R Ins Squadron, Battery or Company: B Regimental Number: 24154 Rank: Private Surname, First Name or Initials: Heggarty, J Completed Years of Age: 20 Completed Years of Service: 5/12 (5 months) Completed Months with the Field Force: 1 (month) Diseases: Dysentery Date of Admission: 27/11/15 Date of Discharge, By Death: Died 10.50pm, 30/11/15. Buried 20M N of Alexandria, Lat 31° 30' N, Long 29° 39' E. Ward: Not given Religion: RC Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emjayen Posted 23 February , 2016 Share Posted 23 February , 2016 Alan, Brilliant! Couldn't have asked for better. For your own records, all other documentation in relation to the family gives the surname as Hegarty. Keep up the good work. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 24 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2016 Michael Not a problem. Spelling, along with difficult to read handwriting and incorrect Regimental Numbers are common occurrences, but they were no doubt in a hurry being in a war zone. I'm checking as I work through the books, cross referencing MICs, ANZAC records etc., but thanks for letting me know. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest danwheeler65 Posted 11 April , 2016 Share Posted 11 April , 2016 My Dear Alan, I wonder if you could possibly help me. My late grandmothers half brother died on H.M.H.S Assaye on 8/12/1915 and I believe he was buried at sea. He was Private Ernest Ralph Rolls. regimental no. 10558 of 5th Battalion Dorset Regt. His religeon was C of E. If you have any information on him I would be most grateful. Kindest Regards and Best Wishes, Daniel Wheeler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 12 April , 2016 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2016 Daniel Thanks for getting in touch and welcome to the Forum. HMHS Assaye continued to admit casualties until 10th December when it left for Malta. The entry I have is as follows: Index No: 185 Regiment, Battalion or Corps: 5 Dorset Squadron, Battery or Company: B Regimental Number: 10558 Rank: Private Surname, First Name or Initials: Rolls, E.R. Completed Years of Age: 22 Completed Years of Service: 1 (year) Completed Months with the Field Force: 6 (months) Diseases: GSW Abdomen Legs etc Date of Admission: 8/12/15 Date of Discharge, By Death: 2pm, 8/12/15. Buried at Sea, Suvla Bay. Ward: (Not given) Religion: CE The term GSW indicates Gun Shot Wound although it is used for other wounds such shrapnel. The 5th (Service) Battalion Dorset Regiment, 11th (Northern) Division, War Diary has an entry on 8th December "Two casualties caused by HE (High Explosive) shell". One of the casualties is likely to be the man you are looking for. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest danwheeler65 Posted 12 April , 2016 Share Posted 12 April , 2016 Dear Alan. Many thanks for kindly sharing this information. It fits yet more pieces into the jigsaw of Ernest Rolls life and death. I only recently discovered him as a relative of mine and your valuable contribution is most informative. Keep up the good work. Kindest Regards, Daniel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravinger Posted 2 April , 2017 Share Posted 2 April , 2017 Dear Alan, Would it be possible to see if there is any record for Private Ernest Harrison, 1st Essex Regiment, Service Number 20526 please? He died of wounds on board the HS Assaye on 7th August 1915 having been wounded the previous day. Thanks Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 3 April , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2017 Hi Andy Thanks for your post, the information I have is as follows: Index No: 216 Regiment, Battalion or Corps: Essex Squadron, Battery or Company: [Not given] Regimental Number: 20526 Rank: Private Surname, First Name or Initials: Harrison Completed Years of Age: [Not given] Completed Years of Service: [Not given] Completed Months with the Field Force: [Not given] Diseases: GSW Penetrating Abdomen Date of Admission: 6/8/15 Date of Discharge, By Death: Died 4.30pm, 7/8/15. Lat 39° 45’ N, Long 26° 15’ E Ward: A Religion: C of E I have attached a copy of the entry below. Another soldier, Private A. Jackson, died earlier the same day; they were buried at sea at the same place. I would be pleased to be corrected but I think the co-ordinates given may not be right. I think the Latitude should be more 36 or 37 degrees as per the death of a man the following day, 39 degrees appears to be on land. I hope the above is of help. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravinger Posted 3 April , 2017 Share Posted 3 April , 2017 Hi Alan, Thanks very much for the information it adds another piece to the jigsaw and I agree with you about the latitude. Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 4 April , 2017 Share Posted 4 April , 2017 Hi Alan Do either of the following chaps turn up please, both 1/5th Bedfordshires, 54th Division? Private 440 Herbert Charles Kendall, probably October 1915, possibly late Sept. Private 2645 Joseph Hack, mid-end August 1915 would be the favourite Many thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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