stevie1944 Posted 9 October , 2013 Share Posted 9 October , 2013 Does anyone have information on the cemeteries that were concentrated into the Dochy Farm New British Cemetery? A soldier, Pte. Ralph Pearson, of the 2/5 Lincs was killed 26 September 1917 near Dochy Farm. Sadly his grave is lost. I've contacted the CWGC for burial details to see if there was an initial burial at the time of death and his grave was lost in subsequent fighting. I understand Dochy Farm is a post-war concentration cemetery, but it is smack dab in the center of where Pearson may have been buried. Any information on this cemetery is much appreciated. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem49 Posted 9 October , 2013 Share Posted 9 October , 2013 I believe that they were isolated graves from various battle areas and not cemeteries and there are a large number of 'unknown' buried there. Steve M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger H Posted 9 October , 2013 Share Posted 9 October , 2013 I am assuming you have see this? http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/16000/DOCHY%20FARM%20NEW%20BRITISH%20CEMETERY Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 9 October , 2013 Share Posted 9 October , 2013 The White Cross Touring Atlas doesn't show any battlefield cemeteries between Zonnebeke and Langemark, but it is entirely possible that any cemeteries which had been near to Dochy Farm NBC had been exhumed before the atlas was compiled. Did you ask the CWGC if all or any of the original burial notes for Dochy Farm give exhumation locations ? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 9 October , 2013 Share Posted 9 October , 2013 Levi Cottage Cemetery was very close to Dochy Farm. The cottage was roughly at 28.D.21.a.8.3, although the cemetery may have been on the other side of the road. It was concentrated into Tyne Cot and brief details of it are on the CWGC Tyne Cot page. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1944 Posted 10 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 10 October , 2013 Thank you everyone for your responses. I emailed the CWGC about the graves concentrated into Dochy Farm NBC. I also came across Bridge House Cemetery, which was created by the 59th North Midland Division after the battle. There are four unknowns in the cemetery. I wonder why this cemetery was so small, and graves were concentrated into other cemeteries. It is a wartime cemetery, so it would lead me to believe it should've been larger, given the number of casualties in the 59th on September 26-28. I believe this reinforces my theory that there was at least one wartime cemetery created at the time of the battle that was either partially destroyed or concentrated into other cemeteries. Other graves were moved to a few other cemeteries. A search on CWGC for Lincolnshire deaths on 26/9/17 yields 131 deaths, of which 8 are transfers to the Labour Corps. I believe approximately 70 are 2/5 Lincs, and many of them are commemorated on the Tyne Cot Memorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1944 Posted 17 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2013 I heard back from the CWGC. They are looking into the 2/5 Lincs burials that were moved to Dochy Farm Cemetery. Here are the burials of the 2/4 Lincs that are interred at Docky Farm NBC, along with their original burial references: Private John Herbert Griffiths - 28. D. 14. D70. 80. Private Samuel Carter - 28. D. 19. A20. 50. Private Sidney David Kirk - 28. D. 19. A10. 50. Private John Thomas Roberts - 28. D. 14. B75. 00. Private Frank Watson - 28. D. 14. B75. 05. Private G Harrison - 28. D. 14. B50. 75. Can someone help me plot these on a trench map or current topo map to see where the original burials were? Thank you in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 5 November , 2013 Share Posted 5 November , 2013 Stevie, Cobbled up by hand, but are these of any use? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 5 November , 2013 Share Posted 5 November , 2013 It doesn't show up very well on the overlay, but Carter and Kirk were both buried at Pommern Castle. The base map I used is of Trenches Corrected to 8th Sept 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1944 Posted 7 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2013 Phil, thank you for taking the time to map out those graves. Originally I though they were buried in a Aid Post Cemetery near Iberian Farm, but it appears as you pointed out they were buried at Pommern Castle. Could it be this was where the aid post or ADS was located? Since my last post I received all the previous burial locations from the CWGC. These records indicate the previous burial locations for the 177th Brigade KIA's from 26 September 1917. I plotted all of them on the 9 Sept 1917 trench map, and there are a few concentrated areas, particularly around Otto Farm. At one point there were three soldiers from different regiments that had the same grave location. I imagine they were not all buried together, but found buried very close to each other. Do you think this could be a common grave, or was it common to have the same burial coordinates for close graves? Would it be safe to assume that since some graves have no previous burial records, and they were buried in war time cemeteries (i.e., Bridge House Cemetery) that these graves are located in their original burial plots, or they simply did not record the original burial location? I am eager to hear if you have any feedback on the layout of the graves. It is interesting to see there are so few burials recorded for the 2/5 Lincs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1944 Posted 7 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2013 It doesn't show up very well on the overlay, but Carter and Kirk were both buried at Pommern Castle. The base map I used is of Trenches Corrected to 8th Sept 1917. 28.D.19 plot resized.jpg Phil - Where did you find your high - res trench map that you plotted on? I would love to plot all of these graves on that trench map. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 7 November , 2013 Share Posted 7 November , 2013 PM me your email address, or you can find mine via the link below. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1944 Posted 8 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 8 November , 2013 Phil, thanks for the maps - they will definately come in handy continuing my research. Do you have any thoughts on the grave layouts? I'm looking to bounce some theories off someone. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 8 November , 2013 Share Posted 8 November , 2013 Stevie, A few thoughts: Did you get the dates when the bodies were concentrated from CWGC? Looking at the current grave locations of Carter and Kirk, it does not look like they were found at the same time. I think you will find that all six were battlefield recoveries concentrated into Dochy Farm. There does seem to be a concentration of both 1/5 and 2/5 Lincs in Plot 6 Row D, so there may be a few of the unknowns in that part as well. I think the concentration around Otto Farm will be a reflection of the ferocity of the fighting. I haven't seen the war diary to confirm that though. "The 178th Brigade on the left also had difficulty with Otto Farm, but by 2.50pm the 59th Division had taken all the objectives on its front." 2/6th South Staffordshires established their Battalion HQ at Pommern Castle at some time after 5.00pm on the 26th September. Click here. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 9 November , 2013 Share Posted 9 November , 2013 Stevie, One bit from post #10 I forgot to answer. The co-ordinates are rounded to effectively give a square 50yds x 50yds. I believe that this was how the battlefield clearance teams broke an area down. Conventionally the co-ordinate should be the origin, i.e. the bottom left hand corner of the square. It is not possible therefore to determine whether it was a common grave, or isolated burials without specific information. An enquiry I made to CWGC did specify that the bodies I was trying to locate were under a single marker, but they were late 1918 burials in ground that was only fought over once. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1944 Posted 10 November , 2013 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2013 Interesting. I thought it was also quite intriguing that many of the 2/5 Lincolnshire Regiment original burials (the black squares on the map I uploaded) are centered around Otto Farm, with almost no remains found near Dochy Farm, the main objective of the 2/5 Lincs on 26 September 1917. Like you mentioned above, could this have something to do with the severity of the fighting around Dochy Farm? I mentioned this in another post, but since we are on topic of burials I felt this was pertinent. Looking at the 2/5 war diary on page 23 there is an entry for BANK FARM 28/09/17 that states, "The day was quiet on the whole with little enemy shelling. An attempt was made to collect dead from the front areas but only 9 bodies were recovered. The ground round the battalion trenches was cleaned and cleared of dead."Can someone offer their thoughts on what this means? Were most of the bodies in the assault area unrecoverable, and only 9 were found? I pooled some numbers and of the four assault regiments on 26 Sep only 29% of the deaths were identifiable burials based on todays records. I find it strange the war diary would mention the recovery of these 9 bodies but no other. I am aware that after the inital assualt the 177th took its objectives, but a miscommunication led to a withdrawal. Did the Germans reoccupy the ground they lost that day, and the nine bodies recovered maybe were during a night search in no man's land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brandubh Posted 26 July , 2016 Share Posted 26 July , 2016 Hi, I know this post is quite old now, but hoping!! I have a family member buried in Dochy Farm cemetery. Paddy Lynch 22nd Battalion AIF. I can trace him to 1 October 1917, and he was reported missing on the 13th October. So I am making a presumption he was killed and (perhaps) buried in a field grave. Obviously he was found after the war and buried in Dochy Farm. but I have been unable to locate an exhumation record. any help would be appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 30 July , 2016 Share Posted 30 July , 2016 Welcome to the Forum. I have downloaded the Burial Return file for Dochy Farm and it appears that the returns for Plot III, Rows A-C are missing bar one sheet (Row B, Graves 21-30). The CWGC gives his date of death as 9th October. The closest I think that you are going to get is the operation report in the 22nd Battalion war diary, which is quite detailed, although this is not going to provide conclusive proof. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brandubh Posted 9 August , 2016 Share Posted 9 August , 2016 Thank you Phil, I have been looking at the 22nd's diary and the map, but I am trying to work out that IF he was in either the action of the 4th or the 9th of October, which was attacking from Zonnebecke to Broodsinde ridge, how he ended up in Dochy Farm. I was sort of making a presumption that field graves would be moved to the nearest cemetery. Just as an 'aside' where I live in central Victoria (Aust) the farm just down the road is called Zonnebecke after the town. The man who established the farm was decorated at one of the battles there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 14 May , 2017 Share Posted 14 May , 2017 Hi all Don't know if this thread is still active but my great grandfather was Samuel Carter listed earlier. We are off to visit Dochy farm cemetery in a couple of weeks, can anyone confirm he was originally buried at pommern and moved later. Any info anyone has would be greatly appreciated and if anyone would like to see his photo I would be happy to add it. Regards Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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