Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:


KIR

Recommended Posts

Hello,


I have a (german) photograph with a captured British Major. On the backside is writen:


"Interrogation of an English Major at the command post of the embankment of Jussy. 23rd march 1918.


Lieutenant-Colonel (and regimental commander) von Huth, Kings-Infantry-Regiment No. 145 (6th Lorraine)"



The Königs-Inf.-Rgt. Nr.145 was a part of the prussain 34th infantry-division (XVI army corps)


and fought in the early 1918 on the Westfront south of Saint-Quentin (Urvillers, Benay, Jussy).


During this time the 14th (Light) Division (42nd Brigade) was in this sector; see map here (or link here).



In the german regimental history is writen, that on the 23rd of march 1918, the 7th company captured


around 200 British soldiers, including some staff officers and a major. Unfortunately nothing more.



Is there a way to find out from which unit this major was? Perhaps from the 9th Battalion, King's Royal Rifle Corps???


I will be very appreciate for any information!


Thank you and best regards, :thumbsup:


Jens


post-28551-0-91977900-1381176939_thumb.j

post-28551-0-06003600-1381176956_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The symbol on his helmet might help to identify which Division ? Inverted triangle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The symbol on his helmet might help to identify which Division ? Inverted triangle.

... yes an inverted triangle on helmet and shoulder - is it for a company or a divion?

He's got an MC

... sorry - what means "MC"? :whistle:(probably not "MC Hammer"!)

^_^ Thanks & best regards,

Jens

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe a Division,you can look through all the Divisional emblems in the Long Long Trail,though not all of them are there, I have noticed some missing in the past.

MC is Military Cross,Stoppage Drill has seen a medal ribbon on his chest which convinces him of the MC.

All I noticed ,apart from the triangle ,is that the first I-Pod was in use by the German Army in 1918 !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gentlemen, thank you a lot for your answer!

Maybe a Division,you can look through all the Divisional emblems in the Long Long Trail,though not all of them are there, I have noticed some missing in the past.
MC is Military Cross,Stoppage Drill has seen a medal ribbon on his chest which convinces him of the MC.

I take a look through some divisional insignias, but I can't found a inverted triangle.

just a "regular" triangle: The 66th (2nd East Lancashire) Division of the British Army in 1914-1918

One question, only the 55th division had the distinguishing badges!??? 55th Division Distinguishing Badges of battalions pls. - Miscellaneous - Great War Forum

... ah ok - the shortcut for the Military Cross! Thanks!

... All I noticed ,apart from the triangle ,is that the first I-Pod was in use by the German Army in 1918 !

... I'm not sure - you mean the unit-insignia from the (german) 208th infantry-division!??

Thanks & best regards,

Jens

post-28551-0-53484500-1381396403_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Difficualt to say, but does he have brass buttons (they seem to be shiny)? If so that may preclude him from being a Rifles officer, surely?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the triangle of the 55 Division then there were no KRRC units there.

My British joke about the I-Pod !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Difficualt to say, but does he have brass buttons (they seem to be shiny)? If so that may preclude him from being a Rifles officer, surely?

... yes - difficult to say! The picture/paper is not in the best condition, so no more detaills are possible.

If the triangle of the 55 Division then there were no KRRC units there.

My British joke about the I-Pod !

... ah ok! And I got it! :D

Gentlemen, thank you again!

Best regards,

Jens

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to know who this British Major is, as despite the apprehensive look in his eye, and being surrounded by many of the enemy, he has his shoulders back and retains his dignity.

LF

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to know who this British Major is, as despite the apprehensive look in his eye, and being surrounded by many of the enemy, he has his shoulders back and retains his dignity.

LF

... that is exactly what I was thinking when I saw this picture the first time! And sure, the name of this brave major would be great!

Thanks & best regards,

Jens

post-28551-0-14551200-1381423723_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got to go through the 14th Divisions diary as yet, but I believe that the 42nd Brigade was an inverted triangle, red in colour with a white triangle above it.

Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, as far as I checked my sources, there ain´t no divisional sign according to a inverted triangle.

Andy, you are wrong with the 42nd Brigade. The inverted ,red triangle with a white one above it, and "go one better" is from the 42rd Division.

In different sources, I´ve read those markings (triangles, circles and so on) stands for the company

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't help with the Major, but the man at the far left end of the photo bears an uncanny resemblance to Vladimir Putin ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Going out on a limb here, but is it possible that the apparent triangle is a symbolic representation of a fusilier hackle?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The inverted trangle was used by 2/5th Lancashire Fusiliers who were in the trenches at Givenchy during the latter end of March and the begining of April 1918.

Anybody with the diaries?

Regards,

Ian.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems that the battalion was involved in some heavy fighting in the area of Windy Corner with a German attack made on the battalion on the 9th April. There is a reference to A, C and D companies being under the second in command, Major P.S. Cookson (From the History of the Lancashre Fusiliers)

Could this be the man?

Regards,

Ian.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gentlemen, thank you again for your great help! :thumbsup:

On the backside is writen: "Interrogation of an English Major at the command post of the embankment of Jussy. 23rd march 1918. ..."

In regimental history is writen: in the morning hours of the 21st of march starts the german attack (18th army) and on the 23rd of march 1918,

around 200 British soldiers, including some staff officers and a major was captured by the Kings-Inf.-Rgt. Nr.145 (34th infantry division)

in the south of Saint-Quentin (Urvillers, Benay, Jussy), see attached maps.

"... succeeded to the lieutenant Plaßmann (7th Company) with his soldiers, reconquer the trenches by Jussy. About 200 POWs, including staff officers.

The 7th Company alone took a major and 70 men captured. Lieutenant (Josef) Plaßmann received the Iron Cross 1st class. ... "

So, I think that the date and the place on the pictures back might be right.

This fits also to the 14th (light) division (Fifth Army/ III Corps), see link here or map here.

"... A post near Urvillers, held by the 9th KRRC holds out until 3.30pm; some held by 8th KRRC in the village finally fall about 4pm."

See also the webpage King`s Royal Rifle Corps: The Western Front 1918 (Last Days of the 14th (Light) Division, 22nd March to 6th April)

" ... On 22nd March the 14th (Light) Division held the Germans on a reduced front on the canal. The enemy crossed at several points on the next day, and the retirement continued on the 24th and 25th. An exhausted remnant, about 2,000 strong, of a fine division reached L'Ecouvillon on the 26th.

The Division was relieved between 4th and 6th April. A short period employed in the training of American Autry units followed and it was then disbanded after an honourable existence of four arduous years.

During the retirement our 9th Battalion lost 23 officers and 620 other ranks. The muster on 26th March was as follows : 7th Battalion, 5 officers and 140 other ranks; 8th Battalion, 1 officer and 30 other ranks; 9th Battalion, 2 officers and 70 other ranks.

Losses of the three battalions: Officers about 70, other ranks: over 2,000. ... "

Thanks and best regards,

Jens

post-28551-0-57054100-1381472136_thumb.j

post-28551-0-56809500-1381472170_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The "inverted triangle" which I have seen painted on to helmets by some fusilier battalions was larger and with a fanned top. Lots of Malins images showing 1 Lancs Fusiliers.

I have seen Guards paint a representation of their bearskin plume in exactly the straight edged triangular form depicted in the photos above. A single colour plume on the left would make him a Grenadier, though their plume is white. Maybe they subdued it ? He doesn't seem to be wearing collar dogs, . . . .

Why do people say that a point down triangle is "inverted" ? Ees a triangle whichever way he point, no ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could this be an 'attached officer' then ? Looking at KRRC units I can see Scottish Rifles, Royal fusiliers, London Regt, Royal Scots, RASC, Rifle Brigade, Kings Liverpool, Dorsets, L N Lancs, Yorks, Sussex officers as casualties in KRRC units ... so if we are looking at unit in 14 Light Div - which seems likely .. we should not presume too much on on the badging, in the first instance. On the other hand there cannot have been so many 14th Div infantry majors captured around there, one would think? [Major Barber c/o A Company 8th KRRC WAS captured around Urvillers, but would be wearing KRRC badging one might presume] I cant spot any likely officers serving in a KRRC unit listed as captured at that time in the 1918 KRRC Chronicle [it included 'attached' officers].

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 14th Division had a total of 123 officers and 3624 other ranks missing or unaccounted for from March 21st to the end of the month. still looking for a Major listed as missing but the Divisions papers for this time are very sparse.

The Jussy area was the 14th Divisions area

Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

I have a faint press clipping of a Major H.F. Le Mestrie MC as a prisioner of War 26 July 1918.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gentlemen,

thank you a lot for your responses. Unfortunately, I can not really participate because I have no knowledge about british units & uniforms.

But I think we are on a good way to find his name.
Thanks to all & best regards,
Jens
another picture: "Benay, 22nd march 1918, british artillery"

post-28551-0-64519600-1381513208_thumb.j

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

The "Cox and Co List of British Officers taken prisoner" book shows a Major JH Boardman of 9 Rifle Brigade attached from the Ox and Bucks Light Infantry was captured on 23.3.18. He died on 25.4.18 at Heilbronn so unlikely to be this man as he seems to be fit and healthy.

I can't find any other Majors in the 14th Division's units in the book for this period. Would Acting or Tmeproray Majors have worn the higher rank insignia?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...