Husband and wife on the same CWGC headstone

[BereniceUK]

This is in St Cuthbert's churchyard, Churchtown, Southport. Must be quite unusual for a married couple, both in uniform, to share a Great War headstone.

[daggers]

Good spot!

D

[BereniceUK]

If I had to guess I'd say that she died from influenza. Anyone have any information on Mr. B's cause of death?

[Hywyn]

Jim Strawbridge is your man for this. May be worth a PM if he doesn't spot the thread.

Hywyn

[Hywyn]

Here's Wilfred

http://burnleyinthegreatwar.info/burnleyrollofhonourmenb/blackburnwilfred240469.htm

Nil on Elizabeth on that website but Burnley is his, not her, hometown

http://burnleyinthegreatwar.info/burnleyrollofhonourmenb/

Hywyn

[roughdiamond]

At work so can't see the image, I'm Guessing it's Elizabeth and W Blackburn? he's Wilfred according to his MIC on the NA's http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D1353788 they have him as "204469" instead of "240469" as he is on CWGC, his MIC also gives an earlier number "2236", I'm sure it's the right man.

This is his MIC on Ancestry http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?MS_AdvCB=1&db=MedalRolls&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=ms_r_db&gsfn=wilfred&gsfn_x=1&gsln=Blackburn&gsln_x=1&_F0003FD8=204469&dbOnly=_F0003FD8%7C_F0003FD8_x&_F0003FD8_x=1&dbOnly=_F0003FD9%7C_F0003FD9_x&uidh=000 not sure if it's listed as 204469 or 240469, it gives a match whichever you type in.

Sam

[The Inspector]

Hi All

Wilfred m Elizabeth Halsall in 1915 in Ormskirk. 2nd qtr 8b,1702. She was 24 yrs old at time of death, 8b,1762.

Regards Barry

[GraemeClarke]

Morning,

According to Victoria Bannister's 'Southport's Splendid hearts', Wilfred died suddenly at Lindley, Huddersfield of phthisis.

Regards

Graeme

[Kitchener's Bugle]

Thanks for posting....that's something that I have never seen myself.....possibly unique????

[Hywyn]

Graeme.

Is that Wilfred or Elizabeth?. The scenario doesn't tally with the research on the Burnley website for Wilfred i. e died of wounds within a few days of being invalided home from France.

Hywyn

[GraemeClarke]

Morning Hywyn

Sorry, Wilfred.

Appears the info is from CWGC

Regards,

Graeme

[Hywyn]

Thanks Graeme.

Reason I posted was because of the pthisis aspect. Afterwards I looked again and realised that it was the same hospital etc

Althoughprimary source is not declared on that particular website it looks to me like newspaper info. It's not inconcievable that latent TB kicked in whilst he was poorly due to the wounds I suppose?

[Jim Strawbridge]

Jim Strawbridge is your man for this. May be worth a PM if he doesn't spot the thread.

Hywyn

Sorry, not much more to add. She was born Elizabeth Halsall in 1893 and lived with her family at Moss Plex Lane, Halsall, Lancashire where her father was a farm manager. Not a mistake Halsall was her name, Halsall also where she lived. She was one of 11 children. Before marrying Wilfred Blackburn she was a domestic servant. Elizabeth enlisted on the 22nd July 1918 and was employed at no.6 Stores Depot, RAF Ascot as a labour worker. On the 22nd October 1918 she was posted for duty to no.15 A.A.P. Facility. Within two months she had died. No idea how she died but 'flu seems most probable.

LATER. see post 22

[BIFFO]

I have seen sim headstones in ypres where the husband was an ex soldier who stayed on after the war as a cwgc gardener,if his wife croaked err passed away after him she would be buried if she wished in the same grave.

Biff

[Scalyback]

Can you search for the CWGC workers on their database?

[kevin donaldson]

Hope you don't mind me jumping on this thread, but I have a rather keen interest in this topic as my Great Grandfather, Gunner Robert Laybourne RFA, is buried in Seaham cemetery when he died in 1918 from Influenza, and what puzzles me his wife is also on the CWGC headstone, when she died in the mid 1920s, but she didn't serve in the forces to my knowledge.

If any body could help me answer why Great Grandmother is on my Great Grandfathers headstone I would be over the moon.

Thank you

Kevin

[Kitchener's Bugle]

Hi Kevin, as a matter of interest, have you ever contacted the CWGC to ask them about this - its fascinating!

[kevin donaldson]

Hi Kevin, as a matter of interest, have you ever contacted the CWGC to ask them about this - its fascinating!

Hello there , no I haven't contacted the CWGC, never even crossed my mind, thank you very much, will do that straight away

Kevin

[BereniceUK]

Morning,

According to Victoria Bannister's 'Southport's Splendid hearts', Wilfred died suddenly at Lindley, Huddersfield of phthisis.

Regards

Graeme

I got a copy of the book today and found that, despite Wilfred being included, Elizabeth isn't. There isn't even a mention of her in Wilfred's entry. There's mention of where he's buried but no comment about his wife's name being inscribed on the same headstone. Neither of them are on Southport War Memorial.

[PaulC78]

I checked the Visiter a while ago for any mention of Elizabeth's death, unfortunately there didn't seem to be anything. Neither of the Blackburns are named on the war memorial at Churchtown.

[PaulC78]

She was born Elizabeth Halsall in 1893 and lived with her family at Moss Plex Lane, Halsall, Lancashire where her father was a farm manager. Not a mistake Halsall was her name, Halsall also where she lived. She was one of 11 children. Before marrying Wilfred Blackburn she was a domestic servant.

Looking at the census records I'd say it's more likely she was the Elizabeth Halsall from Southport, born about 1894-5, living at Lawson Street in 1901 and Scott Street in 1911 - both of these streets are adjacent to Newton Street which is the address given for Wilfred & Elizabeth in 1918.

I've had another look in the Southport Visiter for Elizabeth Blackburn but there's nothing there. There is the following for Wilfred Blackburn though:

[Jim Strawbridge]

PaulC78. You could be right. My research suggested she was the daughter of Charles and Elizabeth Halsall but using BMD I see that nine Elizabeth Halsalls were born in the Ormskirk registration district alone between 1888 and 1896. I have contacted the CWGC offices asking, as Elizabeth Blackburn was a widow at the time she died, whether they had a note as to who was in contact with them with regards to the headstone and grave. This turns out to be Mr H. Halsall of 120 Newton Street, High Park, Southport, Lancashire. What this seems to mean is that Wilfred and Elizabeth lived with Elizabeth's parents. I do not have access to the 1911 census at present but it would be worth searching the address of 120 Newton Street and seeing if Mr H. Halsalls was there then. If so, we have cracked the puzzle. If not we may have to await the release of the 1921 census unless you can come up with another idea. It seems strange, though, that Mr H. Halsall (and perhaps his wife) were not chief mourners at Wilfred's funeral.

[PaulC78]

I've had a look, 120 Newton Street was the home of the HOOTON family in 1911. The HALSALLs were living at 18 Scott Street:

Charles Halsall, head, 60, stationary engine man, born Southport

Ellen Halsall, wife, 55, born Banks

Elizabeth Halsall, daughter, 16, general servant (domestic), born Southport

Sarah Halsall, daughter, 14, born Southport

Albert Marsh, nephew, 28, fireman L&Y Railway, born Manchester

Mary Jane Shackleton, visiter, 5, born Blackburn

If you look on Google maps you can see where Newton St, Scott St & Lawson St are in relation to each other. I doubt the layout of these roads has changed much in the last 100 years.

I too thought it was strange that the funeral report makes no mention of Elizabeth's parents, though I assume the "Miss Halsall" would be the younger sister Sarah. Have also noticed something interesting on the 1901 census - Elizabeth had a twin sister, Emma! Burial records for St Cuthberts show that she died early 1902, age 7. If the age given for Elizabeth is correct on the census and death index, then the correct birth record would be Elizabeth Halsall born Apr-Jun 1894 Ormskirk. There is also an Emma Halsall born at the same time.

[Jim Strawbridge]

PaulC78. Whilst accepting that my original Halsall was the wrong one I am still not sold on yours being the right one. As I said in my posting 22 I was informed only yesterday that the person who dealt with the CWGC with regards to the grave and the headstone for Elizabeth Blackburn was a Mr.H. Halsall living at 120 Newton Street. You have found that the Halsalls did not live at 120 Newton Street in 1911. So we may have to await the release of the 1921 census in the hope that he was living there then. But it seems that we need to home in on a Mr H. Halsall. He may have been Elizabeth's father, uncle or brother. But he seems not to be part of the Charles Halsall family. There is a Sabden history site that has the following. I have tried to contact them but my emails bounce. It reads "Wilfred had lived with his parents at Three Houses, Whalley Road, Sabden from his birth up until his marriage. After attending the village catholic school, Wilfred began work as a weaver at Messrs Steiner & Co, Sabden. Whilst working there he met and married Elizabeth, who was a native of Southport. They then moved to Nelson, Lancashire where Wilfred began work at Messrs A. Nelsons Mill, but left after only four months to enlist into the army. His wife returned to her parents' home at 120 Newton Street, High Park, Southport. After Wilfred had been serving in France for twelve months, his parents received a letter from him in which he informed them that he had been invalided home to a hospital in Huddersfield suffering from wounds to the neck, leg and arm. He told them not to worry, as he had been lucky to escape with his life. The day after receiving Wilfred’s letter, his parents, who were preparing to visit him in hospital, received an official telegram informing them that their son had succumbed to his wounds and had passed away the previous day. Wilfred’s body was taken to his wife’s home for burial at St Cuthbert’s Churchyard, Southport".

[PaulC78]

Ah, sorry Jim, I missed the "H" initial for Elizabeth's father (that's what I get for posting first thing in the morning!). I had another look at the census records, there is an Elizabeth Halsall born about 1895 at Goosnargh near Preston whose father was Henry Halsall, so perhaps that's another possibility.

I posted a photo of the headstone on the CWGC's Facebook page and asked if there were any other husband & wife war graves, and this was their reply:

Hi Paul, this is the only one for as far as we know where a married couple are on a single headstone. There is a Canadian couple buried in adjoining graves in Holten War Cemetery, the Netherlands and Air Chief Marshal Sir Trafford is buried next to his wife in Allemont Communal Cemetery, France. There are also cases of fathers and sons, brothers buried together. There's even a grave in Ranville where a dog handler and his dog are buried together.

If nothing else it looks like this grave could be unique!