Sergeant Drummer / Drummer Sergeant

[Jim Hastings]

Dear All,

I am looking for a friend into his Grandfather who was a 'Sergeant Drummer' (Drum Sergeant) with 2nd South Wales Borderers in Gallipoli. He was wounded on 21st August 1915 at Scimitar Hill. I have read many posts re: Drummers and learned a lot (thank you Grumpy, you seem to have set forum members on the right track in every one of them !!), but have failed to find (so far) the actual role of the Drum Sgt in battle - any info or direction gratefully received, if anyone can please advise me

Many thanks

Jim

[bill24chev]

As I understand it Drummers, unless they were drummers in the Regimental Band, would be membersof the Fiffes & Drums(F&P's), Pipes & Drums in Scotish& Irish regiments exceopt The Gordons who had Drums & Pipes. If not "bandsmen" they would be fully trained Infantry Soldiers and deployed as such in battle.

I dont know if there was an allowed establishment for the F & P's. Either the F & P,s may have formed a platoon or section in their own right. and the Sergeant Drummer would be their Platoon Sergeant ormay have been distributed around the companies.

The Drum-Major would I think be a staff sergeant appointment with responsibility for the performance and training of the F&P's A Segeant Drummer may have held the appointment of Drum-Major.

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Jim

The sergeant-drummer was a colour/staff sergeant and would have been in charge of the battalion's 16 drummers, all of whom would be distributed among the companies, not held as a separate platoon. There was normally one drummer per platoon, who also acted as a runner. Drummers were trained soldiers; bandsmen (some of whom might play the drum) were usually employed as tretcher bearers.

Drum-major is the modern title, and a Great War infantry battalion didn't have both a drum-major and a sergeant-drummer. The latter title survives in the Foot Guards, where drum-majors are appointed sergeant-drummers to the Sovereign, and it is in that capacity that they wear the heavily gold-embroidered coat, white leggings and "jockey caps" on State occasions.

I can't find a clearer description of the role of the sergeant-drummer in the field, but I suspect that "CO's messenger" probably covers it.

In Rifle battalions, the titles sergeant-bugler and bugler are used instead.

Ron

[Jim Hastings]

Hello Bill and Ron,

Thank you so much for your posts, I need to check but I think the CO of 2SWB was also wounded on that day too, so my friend's grandfather may have been wounded next to him. Very intriguing.

Its quite ironic really, my friend was a signaller in our regiment and is now a paramedic, and his grandfather was a runner also involved with the stretcher bearers (if I bend the coincidence a bit lol)

Many thanks again

Jim

[Sturmey]

Coming a bit late to this thread but grateful for any help - we didn't know my grandfather Sergeant James Page of 1/4 Essex Number 200070 was a Sergeant Drummer til we got onto the trail of his MM. Previously we'd got his medal record card and he was a plain sergeant until promoted later in the war.

As my mother (his daughter) doesn't recall him having a musical bone in his body could it be that such a role required no drumming ability, as Ron's latest seems to say? In other words it was the the drummers who were the drummers, and in combat he was i/c and that was purely a combat role?

all the best

Jonathan

[KevinBattle]

Well, I'll let those more knowledgeable fully respond, but it's not like industry nowadays where you can have men at the top (or middle) who don't know what they are doing!

You have to know more than the rudiments to think of teaching even young boys as drummers and it is a responsible task to lead a parade, give orders through the mace so the band know when to march on the spot, right or left wheel etc at the correct points.

You say he didn't have a musical bone in his body (and quite a few said that about me) but you often instinctively know how and what to do and which tunes to play.

Perhaps like many old soldiers, they simply left "that world" behind when leaving the Forces, and never spoke or did anything like it again...... too many memories?

[Muerrisch]

Although sgt drummers had the status of staff, they ranked as sgts and no higher.

In peacetime they wore superior clothing and a sword on parade. In war their role was ill defined and much would depend on circumstances

[Black Jock]

Although sgt drummers had the status of staff, they ranked as sgts and no higher.

In peacetime they wore superior clothing and a sword on parade. In war their role was ill defined and much would depend on circumstances

Agreed

[Sturmey]

That's really helpful, many thanks

Jonathan

[ddycher]

All

Sorry have come to this thread late. Have recently been trying to understand the role of Drum Major better in the pre-war territorials and what happened to this staff position on mobilization. Have to admit I seem to be going round and round in circles.

Trying to trace this back would I be right in assuming that on consolidation of the volunteer battalions in 1880 and the creation of a "regimental band" a Bugle Major of an administrative battalion would have been redesignated the new consolidated battalions Drum Major ? Did this mean that individual corps bands were consolidated at this point also ?

Was the role effective only at battalion drills and at camps ? Does anyone have a ref to the role outside of these events ? I understand that companies had a number of drummers each. Was this x2 in the 8 company system ?

When the TF battalion I have been looking at was mobilized and later when it embarked they took buglers and drummers with them. Cant find any ref todate for the Drum Major though. I can find intermittant ref's to bands in India but then lose all ref's when the battalion was sent to an active theatre but this might be just due to lack of ref material.

On the reconstruction after the war were bands rebuilton the same grounds as the pre-war organization ?

Sorry for so many questions but finding a definitive ref hard to find.

Regards

Dave

[Muerrisch]

Your best bet is to contact member Ron Clifton, who, I believe, has details of all the relevant Establishments.

One potential for confusion though. A drum sergeant/ drum major/ sergeant drummer had nothing to do with a military band except head it up if the band and the drums paraded together. Said drum sergeant was i/c The Corps of Drums, usually 16 drummers as you say. Apart from being qualified drummers, they were trained on bugle and flute duty. Their exact equivalent in Rifles and Light Infantry were indeed buglers.

[Ron Clifton]

I am fairly certain that the serjeant-drummer would have to be a trained drummer, bugler and fifer himself, since he would be responsible for training the drummers. I don't think he was simply an ordinary serjeant who happened to have been put in charge of the corps of drums, as implied in post #5.

As regards the 8-company organisation, yes, there were two drummers per company then.

Ron

[ddycher]

Grumpy / Ron

Many thanks. Got more work to do then. As Grumpy says I have been confusing the Corps of Drums, & Drum Major with bandsmen and bandmaster.

regards

Dave