HMS Dido - Depot Ship

[old sparky]

I am researching the fallen who are commemorated on our village memorial. These include one K/39952 Stoker 2nd Class William Jasper who died on 6th March 1918 on HMS Dido. This ship did not see any active service during the war but acted as Depot to a cruiser squadron. Would the role of a depot ship include processing crew reinforcements and replacements as well as material support to its dependent cruisers? What I am getting at is, how likely is it that my man was at sea with the squadron when he met his death? Can anyone help please?

Cheers

Peter B

Edited 2 October , 2013 by old sparky

[seaJane]

Did he definitely die aboard DIDO or was he on one of her attached cruisers? (Service record should help, it is here at a cost of £3.36 download http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D6997812)

You may have started from his service record in which case I apologise for reinventing the wheel!

sJ

[old sparky]

Not at all seaJane! I spent some frustrating hours on the NA site trying to find his records, without success, so your link is most welcome. I was merely trying to ascertain whether this sailor died in action or by sickness or accident, not that it matters. The chap was in uniform and doing his bit after all.

Many thanks

Peter B

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Peter,

Here is your ship, HMS Dido, and a photo of some of her Officers.

She was launched on 20 March, 1896 - Completed on 10 May 1898, and sold for scrap on 26 December, 1926.

5,600 tons with a crew of 450 men.

HMS Dido - crew photograph.

LF

HMS Dido

Surnames; back row from left: Wright, Egerton, Weller, Birch, Shore, Blake, Bateman, Lyon, De Pass, Boyd, Finnis, Mackay
Front Row from left: Bradbury, Comdr Wrightson, Captn Sandeman, Eng Comdr Gastes, St Surg Jone

[old sparky]

Splendid photos! Thanks for letting me see them. It looks as if this may have been taken pre war when she was still a ship of the line. The officers look more formidable than the ship! Do you know the significance of the funnel ring? Is it some sort of 'badge of rank' for a ship?

Peter B

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Peter,

As HMS Dido served in home waters during WW1 - 1914 - Depot ship 3rd Submarine Flotilla, 1914 - Depot ship 3rd Destroyer Flotilla Harwich, 1915 - Depot ship 9th Destroyer Flotilla Harwich & 1918 -Depot ship 10th Destroyer Flotilla Harwich, and as you say saw no action, the death of a crew member could have been as a result of an accident or sickness ( back then influenza was often fatal ). HMS Ship's Logs are archived, and if you can locate the log, it should record the death of a crew member.

By coincidence, there was a British Steamer the ' Dido ', which was mined by the German UBoat UC7 commanded by Oberleutnant Georg Haag on 26 February 1916, while sailing from Hull to Bombay, which resulted in 28 ' Dido ' casualties.

However, not the HMS Dido, and the date does not match.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The British Steamer ' Dido '

LF

[old sparky]

Thank you again LF. Off on a hunt for the archived log then!

Cheers

Peter B

[old sparky]

The British Steamer ' Dido '

LF

So that will be why they called it a 'bridge' then. It had never occurred to me til I saw this photo.

Peter B

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Thank you again LF. Off on a hunt for the archived log then!

Cheers

Peter B

I understand British Navy Ship's Logs are kept at the National Archive, and back in 2011, I read they were to be made available ' on line ' ?

Please let us know if you find anything.

Regards,

LF

[seaJane]

Ships' logs have been referenced online for some while - they are in ADM 53 and can be traced via http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/, using [ship's name] + log as search terms. Mostly, however, these haven't been actually transcribed.

I do know of two sets of available logs:

1. "164 volumes of log books of the Royal Navy's voyages of scientific discovery in series ADM 55. The records were made between 1757 and 1861, with one exception made in 1904." More details here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/logs-journals-ships-of-exploration.htm.

2. some Medical Officers' Journals from ADM 101, for which see http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/surgeonsatsea/.

Finally, you may be thinking of http://www.oldweather.org/ which is a crowdsourcing project transcribing ships' logs.

Best wishes,

sJ

[Lancashire Fusilier]

SJ,

What great links, I am sure Peter is ploughing through them at this very moment.

I still think, you have to be a bit of an expert to navigate those National Archive on line records successfully.

Regards,

LF

[seaJane]

I certainly don't find the Discovery version as easy to use as the original catalogue search was - and I'm a librarian!

Should have said not to put HMS into the ship name as it is not always included by the transcriber. And, I'm not sure that absolutely everything has been catalogued either. But given the enormous amount of stuff at TNA, am I surprised?

[old sparky]

I certainly don't find the Discovery version as easy to use as the original catalogue search was - and I'm a librarian!

Should have said not to put HMS into the ship name as it is not always included by the transcriber. And, I'm not sure that absolutely everything has been catalogued either. But given the enormous amount of stuff at TNA, am I surprised?

I understand British Navy Ship's Logs are kept at the National Archive, and back in 2011, I read they were to be made available ' on line ' ?

Please let us know if you find anything.

Regards,

LF

Ah well! I drew a blank on Dido's logs but the service record you kindly pointed me at has my man on board for only 6 weeks before being transferred back to Vivid at Devonport?. I suspect this was only a paper transaction however as he died of pulmonary tuberculosis in RN Hospital Chatham. Aspledid result for me thanks to you both.

Best regards

Peter B

Edit: Does the word 'Tornada' mean anything to either of you? It appears in brackets after Dido in the service record. Intriguing.

Edited 3 October , 2013 by old sparky

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Peter,

Pleased to hear that SJ's referral provided the information you were looking for.

Regards,

LF

[seaJane]

Tornada may well have been the ship he was borne on for which Dido was the depot ship - infuriatingly there is a gap in our Navy List at 1918!

Suppose it couldn't have been HMS Tornado? I can't trace the other spelling online.

[horatio2]

HMS TORNADO was one of three destroyers of the Harwich Force (probably parented by DIDO) which were lost to mining on 23 December 1917.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Edit: Does the word 'Tornada' mean anything to either of you? It appears in brackets after Dido in the service record. Intriguing.

Peter,

I can find no reference to any HMS ' Tornada ', however, there was a British WW1 HMS Tornado.

HMS Tornado was involved in one of the worst nights for the British Navy, when 3 Destroyers ( all new ) were all mined on 23rd December, 1917, off the Dutch North Sea coast near the Maas light buoy

HMS Torrent was the first to hit a German mine, HMS Surprise went to assist and was also mined, and as HMS Tornado tried to get clear, she detonated two mines and sank with only one survivor. Only HMS Radiant got home. A total of 252 men were lost that night.

Regards,

LF

[old sparky]

Thank you yet again. Yes, it could well be Tornado but my man was transferred on 17th Dec 1917 and died of TB in the following March. What can one say about his fate?

Thank you again for your contributions. One day I shall be confident (and knowledgeable enough) to chase down these searches myself. Hope I can be of assistance to you some day.

Best regards

Peter B

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Peter,

Great to see your man's record.

I noticed he also previously served on HMS Vivid II, which was a Royal Navy Shore Establishment at Devonport.

In WW1, specifically 1914 - 1915, Vivid II was an 'Accounting Base' at Devonport Royal Naval Shore Establishment. There were several Vivids at the time, Vivid III was an 'Accounting Section' also at Devonport Sep 1917 - ~ Dec 1918, Vivid IV was an 'Accounting Base' at Falmouth around that time, and Vivid V was another 'Accounting Base' at Milford Haven c.1919.

Regards,

LF

[TeeCeeCee]

Peter,

I can find no reference to any HMS ' Tornada ', however, there was a British WW1 HMS Tornado.

HMS Tornado was involved in one of the worst nights for the British Navy, when 3 Destroyers ( all new ) were all mined on 23rd December, 1917, off the Dutch North Sea coast near the Maas light buoy

HMS Torrent was the first to hit a German mine, HMS Surprise went to assist and was also mined, and as HMS Tornado tried to get clear, she detonated two mines and sank with only one survivor. Only HMS Radiant got home. A total of 252 men were lost that night.

Regards,

LF

LF

So the man in question couldn't have been on Tornado if she was lost with only one survivor. Unless he be him?

The way to find the name of the ship (Tornado, Tornada or maybe something beginning with I, J or L) is to look at the ships that used Dido as a base. If you look at the writing that makes up 'Tornada', the 'a's are distinct from the 'o' so the author did end the name with '...ada'. Unless it is a typo or clerical error?

[horatio2]

Clearly, he was not serving in TORNADO when she was sunk on 23 December because he had left the ship and been drafted to VIVID six days earlier on 17 December.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Nobody has said William Jasper did serve on HMS Tornado, and the only reason ' Tornado ' came up, was in response to Peter mentioning ' Tornada ', and all of this was before his post # 19 showing the ship's names and dates.

As it happens, and because a second ship is mentioned in his records alongside ' Dido ' ( be it the Tornado or another ship ), I suppose William Jasper could have moved between both ships even for a short period of time during the dates 30th October and 17th December, 1917. If that second ship was HMS Tornado, the dates would still work as she was not sunk until 23rd December, 1917.

LF

[horatio2]

My interpretation of the record is that he did serve in HMS TORNADO (notwithstanding the bad handwriting that makes it look like TORNADA). The record shows he was drafted to TORNADO, which was a tender to DIDO, and there is nothing to suggest that he "moved between ships". If he had been drafted out of (or before) TORNADO to serve as ship's company in DIDO his record would show an entry of DIDO (and nothing else) with the appropriate dates. This is all somewhat academic as he was away from TORNADO before she was sunk.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

My interpretation of the record is that he did serve in HMS TORNADO (notwithstanding the bad handwriting that makes it look like TORNADA).

Horatio2,

I am sure your's is the correct interpretation of William Jasper's record, as I can find no other ship with a name made up of those group of letters other than HMS Tornado.

Is it usual in such records to show a seaman's service in two ships, with no specific dates relating to each ship ?

According to his records, he joined HMS Dido on 30th October, 1917, and for some reason and for an unknown period of time he was transferred to HMS Tornado, leaving that ship on 17th December, 1917 to return to HMS Vivid on 18th December, 1917, from where he was transferred to the Royal Navy Hospital at Chatham on 9th January 1918, where he sadly died of TB on 6th March 1918.

Regards,

LF