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stevebecker

2nd Battalion Camel Corps

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stevebecker

Mate,

Yes the other number looks right (51137) the 81 Number was possibly a pre war number and crossed out during the war when he moved units.

That number (51137) is so far vacent in my list and is amoung a number of odds and sods from different units

As shown by these numbers and men;

Hood John 51134 Sgt ICC Ex Suffolk Regt (7818) later RASC (T/41869)
Rogers Benjamin J. 51135 Pte ICC 5Co? Ex Welsh Regt (6723) and Hussars to Welsh Regiment (74696)
Evans Evan 51136 Sgt ICC 5Co? Ex Welsh Regt (909) and Hussars to Royal Air Force (3342)
Last Richard C. 51138 Cpl ICC Ex Royal Garrison Artillery (25734) and Hussars
McConnack James 51139 Sgt ICC Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5872) and Hussars

The Camel school was not opened till Jan 1916 taking over the old Egyptian Camel Traning camp at Abbassia outside Cairo.

So far only Allied (British Aussie and NZ soldiers) used it during the war the Egyptians ICC moved else where, as far as I know?

I did a check but found only one officer named Mitchell and was;

Mitchell Capt RDentC ICC Dent Sect 2-18 Ex RDentC

But my records only go up to the end of 1918 so he apaears after the names I have.

The details look right for a ICC soldier and its always good when another is confirmed.

I have found only one other Gordon amoung the ICC and he is;

Chisholm Kenneth Capt Ex CQMS 1Bn Gordon Highlanders (S/16003) and 2/Lt 5Bn Glouster Regt to Indian Army

The SIg unit of the ICC Bde was a mixed unit with soldiers from all over;

Some I have on record are;

Morgan Frank Stanley Capt Sig officer ICC Bde HQ 12-16 to 1-18 CBE Ex 2/Lt Pembroke Yeo to Capt Welsh Yeo to Maj Royal Corps of Signals to Col

Joynson Lawrence Bright Capt Sig officer ICC Bde HQ 1-18 to ?-18 Ex Lt Warwick Yeo

Rhodes James T. 50119 Pte ICC 8Co Sig Ex 3/1 Berkshire Yeo (2696) and Hussars (almost the same as your relation)

Hodges Horace John 50109 Pte 8Co Sig Ex Berkshire Yeo (1730) and Dragoons NKG listed on the Jerusalem War Memorial KIA 1-5-18

Cheers

S.B

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David Miller

Thanks Steve, The Gordon Highlanders Museum sent me a copy of a photo showing the Camel Corps School circa 1913 which is interesting because it shows around 80 troops on camels in 4 rows of 20 of which the front row consists of Gordon Highlanders (as the Museum staff pointed out they are still wearing their bonnets whereas the other 3 rows are wearing the ordinary military hat). There are a further 4 mounted persons in front and the caption underneath says that the 2 officers are Lt. F.R.R Sworder and Lt. R.O Blair but doesn't name the other two. Unfortunately it is difficult to enlarge the photo to get a great deal of detail. Cheers,

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stevebecker

Mate,

Thanks for that, I wasn't aware that large numbers of British soldiers served pre war in the Egyptian CC but I wouldn't discount it as (LtCol - Brig gen) Smith won his VC with the Somali CC in 1909.

I was aware of only small numbers attach to the Egyptian Army since the first large numbers of White Camel Mounted soldiers didn't start to Jan 1916.

As to one of your officers he is shown as;

Sworder, Frederick Robert Fairman Corps Regiment No Rank Gordon Highlanders Captain

S.B

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David Miller

Hi Steve, just a small follow up re James Barclay Chalmers.

I have now clarified his 3 regimental numbers The first number 81 was his original service number when joining the Gordon Highlanders as they were one of 3 Scottish regiments who changed their numbering in 1908 so when he joined in August 1908 he received a low number - these numbers were changed again in 1920 when he received his last service number of 2865120. His Corps of Hussars service number was probably 51137 (and not 51157 as I previously indicated) - the misreading is due to the way the numbers were crossed out on his Active Service Sheet.

Given the restructuring of the Somaliland Camel Corps from 12 March 1914 and my Grandfather's transfer to the Camel Corps on 20 Feb 1914 (according to his Statement of Services) it seems highly likely there is a connection.

Then his Active Service Sheet shows him being transferred to "Imperial Camel Corps" on 20 May 1916 as L/Sergt (unpaid) Perm Staff I.G.C. at Abbassia. Therefore, reading his military record he must have transferred from wherever he was to join the Imperial Camel Corps.

Further to my comments re the Photo of the training School, Lt R O Blair Cunynghame was also a Captain Robert Oglivy Blair Cunynghame in the 2nd Battalion Gordon Highlanders and he died on 5th May 1915.

Cheers

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ImOhShep

I have a swimming medal which is supposed to belong to a member of the Camel Corps - a 2/Lt G.V Curtis, sadly Ive never been able to find out much about him but the medal is lovely and much treasured.

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stevebecker

Mate,

Sorry I missed your question?

I could find no officer by that name so far in the records I have?

That doesn't mean he was not in the ICC only I have no record (so far).

Also be aware that the Camel Corps may also refer to the CTC, where large numbers of all ranks were given appointments as officers in that Corps.

I'll check some other sourse to see if he was ICC or CTC?

the medal index cards show only one officer?

Description: Medal card of Curtis, G A Victor Corps Regiment No Rank Royal Engineers Second Lieutenant

There maybe others but will need and name like George or Gordon Curtis.

Cheers

S.B

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wazza129

Steve - do you have any details in your data base of Lt William Thomas Clarke to ICC 1st Batallion 5/5/16 (seconded), 5/11/16 (appointed) then transferred to 3rd Batallion 15/4/17 11th Coy - wounded 6/11/17 - I've read the unit diary regarding the action in Kuleweife and the engagement of the 11 coy on the ridge etc. anything more specific regarding this officer (who is my paternal grandfather) or mentions in dispatches etc.?

Cheers

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stevebecker

Mate,

I show these details on Bill Clarke;

CLARKE William Thomas 2/Lt Teacher age 25 Liverpool NSW Enl 14-4-15 prom 2/Lt 29-10-15 Emb 14R/1Bn. 4 Trg Bn 13-2-16 to 1Bn 4Co 5-5-16 prom Lt 19-8-16 to 3Bn 11Co 15-4-17 "as a resault of "Court of Inquiry 29-3-17 into Capt Morgan" WIA 6-11-17 Khuweilfe (GSW L/thigh) RTA 16-2-18 "Ulysses" med unfit disch 19-9-18 brothers Arthur 25 FAB & Frederick 15Bn

As to the fighting at Khuweife, the 3rd Bn ICC was attached to the British and placed in reserve for the attack but due the British loosing there way the 3rd Bn found itself in the front when the British took a left turn in the darkness, and the ICC continued as directed.

It found itseft cut off in front of the 19th Turkish Div, where they fought it out for two days, until other forces relieved them.

The 3rd Bn ICC suffered heavy losses during this fight and a number of all ranks received awards for there actions, but I can find no awards or recommendations of any awards for Lt Bill Clarke.

The 11Co was in a particular exposed position but held against all attacks by the Turks.

The commander of the 11th Company was the well known officer;

CRESWELL Randolph William Lt Mining Engineer age 25 Toorak Vic born Largs Bay SA 13-3-1890 (2 years Melbourne Uni Rifles) Enl 28-11-14 Emb 2/Lt HQ Staff AN&MEF. Prom Lt 1-2-15 at Rabaul Director Lands and Roads RTA/disch 1-4-15 ReEnl 27-4-15 Emb Lt BCo/29Bn. 1Bn 1Co 24-1-16 prom T/Capt OC 3Bn 11Co 1-7-16 Awarded Serbian Order White Eagle 5th Class with Swords prom Capt 6-11-16 to Typographical cse Qual 8-8-17 KIA 6-11-17 Khuweilfe "reported hit in head by spent bullet" Awarded MID at Khuweilfe Buried Beersheba War Cemetery. Father Vice Adm Sir William Rooke Cresswell KCMG KBE RAN (founder of the RAN and officers school) brothers Edmund Lt 2 Pnr Bn and Colin RN KIA in sub E 47 and Uncle John Dr Suez GH

other officers (Dixon replaced Cresswell)

DIXON Ernest William 5009 Lt Horse Shipper age 34 Cowes Phillip Island Vic born St Kilda Vic 18-12-1879 (Ex Indian Army) Enl 11-11-14 Emb Sgt 12Co ASC/3 LH Bde Trn. T/RSM 10 LHR 3-1-16 prom 2/Lt 1-9-16 to CTU 10-10-16 to 3Bn 11Co 1-11-16 Awarded MID at Rafa prom Lt 21-2-17 prom Capt OC 3Bn 11Co 6-11-17 Recom for VC Awarded DSO MID at Khuweilfe "During an enemy attack he took command of a vital position and held for two days following the death of Capt Creswell" to Adjt RHQ/15 LHR 1-7-18 to OC C Sqn 3-19 RTA 29-4-19

DAWSON Erskine William Douglas Hamilton Lt Stockman age 26 West End Qld Enl 18-2-15 as A/SSM 7R/5 LHR (1087) to 10R/5 LHR prom 2/Lt 29-10-15 Emb 12R/5 LHR. ToS 7-1-16 to 2 LHTR 1-3-16 to 3Bn 11Co 1-7-16 prom Lt 26-7-16 to T/OC 6-17 to 8-17 WIA 6-11-17 at Khuweilfe (GSW chest) DoW 6-11-17 died at 75 CCS Buried at Beersheba War Cemetery

Awards to some of these men were;

THOM George 2333 Pte Labourer age 25 Honiton SA and Kebbada Scotland Enl 14-12-15 Emb 16R/9 LHR. 3 LHTR 1-6-16 to 3Bn 11Co 1-7-16 det LMG school 5-9-17 qual rtn 15-9-17 to L/Cpl 6-11-17 Awarded MM at Khuweilfe to 15 LHR 1-7-18 to T/Cpl 4-10-18 to Cpl 4-1-19 to UK leave 9-7-19 RTA 25-9-19 "Port Denison"

RALPH Benjamin Edward 462 Pte Labourer age 20 Seabrook via Northam WA Enl 20-10-14 Emb CSqn/10 LHR. WIA 29-8-15 (BW back & shoulder) Hill 60 evac to Malta to UK 30-8-15 Gallipoli. 3 LHTR 24-6-16 to 3Bn 11Co 9-9-16 WIA 27-3-17 1st Gaza (GSW shoulder) to L/Cpl 6-6-17 to T/Cpl 6-11-17 Awarded MM at Khuweilfe to Cpl 5-2-18 to Sgt 6-2-18 to 15 LHR 1-7-18 RTA 5-2-19 "Delta" med unfit brother Arthur ICC died

PEARSON Leonard Leo 570 T/Cpl Labourer age 25 Malvern SA Enl 27-11-14 Emb CSqn/11 LHR. Att DSqn/9 LHR 29-8-15 Gallipoli. To T/Cpl 6-1-16 rtn 11 LHR 22-2-16 to 3 LHTR 25-6-16 to 3Bn 11Co 6-7-16 to Sgt 11-11-16 WIA 19-4-17 2nd Gaza (GSW R/arm) rtn 5-7-17 Awarded MM at Khuweilfe 6-11-17 to CSM 22-11-17 to SSM 15 LHR 1-7-18 to hosp 20-10-18 (malaria) rtn 15-12-18 RTA 17-7-19 "Dunluce Castle"

HARRIS Eugene Henry 2360 Pte Farmer age 21 Dangin WA Enl 17-12-15 Emb 16R/10 LHR. 3 LHTR 17-6-16 to 3Bn 11Co 1-7-16 to hosp 24-7-16 dysentry to MG cse 26-7-16 Awarded MM at Khuweilfe 6-11-17 to AAMC Trg unit 10-1-18 to 2 ASH 11-2-18 to ACFA 9-4-18 RTA 24-7-19 "Dongola" Later WWII (W27410) Pte 29 Garr Bn Enl 4-10-40 disch 24-3-44

GREGG Richard 2591 Pte Labourer age 37 Tungamah Vic Enl 2-2-16 Emb 18R/8 LHR. 3 LHTR 12-8-16 to 3Bn 11Co 9-9-16 FGCM 22-4-17 AWoL sentenced 60 days detention rtn 3Bn 11Co 18-6-17 Awarded MM at Khuweilfe to Dvr 15 LHR 1-7-18 rtn BSqn/8 LHR 4-9-18 WIA 14-11-18 head fractured skull accident in horse fall RTA 26-1-19 "Demosthenes"

FITZGERALD Edwin Stewart 2348 Pte Farmer age 19 Naraling WA Enl 3-1-16 Emb 16R/10 LHR. 3 LHTR 17-6-16 to 3Bn 13Co 5-8-16 to 3Bn 11Co 11-8-16 WIA 6-11-17 at Khuweilfe (R/thigh GSW) and Awarded MM at Khuweilfe rtn 11-1-18 to 15 LHR 1-7-18 RTA 19-2-19 "Lancashire" later WWII (W59243)

BELL Walter Wentworth 478 L/Cpl Farmer age 20 Bealiba Vic and HQ Worcester Yeomanry UK Enl 26-8-14 Emb DCo/8Bn. Evac to hosp 9-7-15 rtn 8-10-15 Gallipoli. ToS C Troop ASqn/4 LHR 13-1-16 (478a) to 3Bn 11Co 5-8-16 to L/Cpl 12-1-17 Awarded MM 24-1-17 WIA 6-11-17 Khuweilfe (GSW L/knee) Awarded MID ? to ASqn/15 LHR 1-7-18 FGCM 31-7-18 sentenced 6 months HL RTA 26-12-18 "Burma" "nickname yank" Later WWII (V5194) Sgt 2 IDTS Enl 9-8-40 disch 13-2-45. father Walter Yeomanry British Army

Just to name some of the 11Co men.

Cheers

S.B

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wazza129

Steve - many thanks - any further details available re the below regarding Bill Clarkes transfer from 1Bn to 3Bn ?

to 3Bn 11Co 15-4-17 "as a resault of "Court of Inquiry 29-3-17 into Capt Morgan"

Also is your book on the I.C.C getting close to being published?

cheers

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stevebecker

Mate,

See the service record of Capt Morgan for the inquiry;

MORGAN Thomas William 874 2/Lt Boer War Enl 1895 to Sgt British Black Watch WIA 1899 at Paaderburg disch 1906) Motor Tyre Expert age 39 Guildford NSW Enl 20-8-14 Emb Colour Sgt HCo/2Bn. Landed CSM CCo 25-4-15 prom 2/Lt 28-4-15 evac to hosp Malta 14-7-15 (dyspepsia and dental) to hosp UK 15-8-15 Gallipoli. Rtn 3-1-16 to 1Bn 2Co 29-1-16 prom Lt 19-8-16 prom T/Capt 27-9-16 prom Capt 5-11-16 "Court of Inquiry 29-3-17 called by officers in his company Lt's Clarke, Young and Scott-Higgins into his command" removed from duty" to Res Co 14-4-17 to AIF HQ UK 27-7-17 to 1 Trg Bn 28-7-17 "found to be unfit" RTA 11-1-18 "Port Darwin" disch 21-3-18 SNLR believed traveled to UK to relist in British Army.

As to the Book, I put it on the back burner some years ago, and have not gone back to it as yet.

Cheers

S.B

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wazza129

Steve - will check it out - all the best mate

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stevebecker

Kenbar,

 

Mate I was goinf threw some documents and found my reference to Ken Dodgson in the ICC. it came from Roy Moore then editor of the ICC assoc newsletter in which Ken Dodgson is shown as a member of 10th Company & East Riding Yeomanry both the same units as Rory Moore.

 

When Rory died in 1989 Ken is shown as 93 years old, some checking finds him as possibly as;

 

Dodgson William Kenneth 50611 Pte 10Co Ex East Riding Yeo (1520) and Hussars

not
Dodgson Ken   Lt 10Co (not Kenneth Vernon Dodgson Devon Regt KIA at Loos 1915)

 

(William) Ken Dodgson gained his commission late in the war

 

My mistake was to take Ken as his first name and not his second when I went looking for someone on the MIC by the name of Ken Dodgson.

 

Sorry

 

Cheers


S.B
 

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wazza129

Hey Steve mate - its been a while.... but an after thought - does your data base show who were the officers batmen? If so would you happen to know who was Lt Will Clarke's batman when in the 11th coy?

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stevebecker

Mate,

 

I went through my lists for batman to Lt Clarke, while I did find one, he was in fact batman to Lt Bertram Clark 2Co, but further looking found this man and I need to look into him more;

 

DAVIES Alfred Owen 2039 Pte Seaman age 27 Sydney NSW and Birkenhead Cheshire UK (British TF) Enl 17-5-15 Emb 3R/17Bn. ToS BCo 12-10-15 Gallipoli. 1Bn 3Co 5-5-16 to batman to Lt Scott-Higgins 1Bn 2Co 14-11-16 rtn 3Co 26-12-16 rtn 2Co 8-3-17 att batman to Lt W Clarke 3Bn 11Co 15-4-17 rtn 2Co 22-1-18 att 4Bn 18Co 24-1-18 rtn 2Co 15-2-18 to LH Dtls 1-7-18 to AAMC Trg depot 17-7-18 to 2 ASH 27-7-18 (1422) RTA 15-6-19 "Essex"

 

This fits into his (Clarke's) move to the 11Co from the 1st Anzac Bn follow that inquiry.
 

While also I did find these Batman to officers in 11Co;

 

LEWIS William Richard 1471 Pte Lucerne Grower age 18 Henley Beach SA (BCo/77th Inf Regt CMF) Enl 31-8-15 Emb 6R/11 LHR. ToS C Sqn att DSqn/9 LHR 7-1-16 to hosp 1-2-16 (mumps) rtn CSqn/11 LHR 22-2-16 to 3 LHTR 5-6-16 to CTU 8-7-16 to 3Bn 13Co 9-7-16 to hosp 29-7-16 (VD) rtn 6-1-17 to 3Bn 11Co 10-11-17 "batman to Lt Dean" to 4Bn 30-12-17 to 3 LHR 27-7-18 to hosp 8-10-18 (malaria) to AIF HQ 11-11-18 rtn 3 LHR 22-12-18 RTA 19-2-19 "Lanceshire" med unfit
 

LOVE James 1142 Pte Farmer age 19 Tullamarine Vic Enl 14-6-15 Emb 8R/8 LHR. ToS B Sqn 13-11-15 Gallipoli. 3 LHTR to 3Bn 11Co 1-7-16 to hosp 23-7-16 (pryexia) rtn 2-8-16 "batman to Lt Fitzharding" to MG Sect/15 LHR 1-7-18 WIA 25-10-18 (GSW L/hand) "while escorting prisoners accident in replacing his pistol in holster" RTA 23-12-18 "Leicestershire" med unfit
 

PRUNTY Peter 890 Pte Stationhand age 23 Menzies WA (25th LH WAMI CMF) Enl 30-12-14 Emb 4R/1 LHR. To Gallipoli 22-8-15. 1Bn 1Co 5-5-16 to 3Bn HQ 15-12-16 rtn batman to Capt Wright 1Co 6-1-17 to 3Bn 11Co 27-4-17 to 3rd School Military Avation 5-7-17 "batman to Lt Finlay" rtn 11-9-17 to ASqn/14 LHR 1-7-18 (possibly batman to Lt Archer) RTA 24-7-19 "Dongola"
 

WHITTY Victor Mark 3133 Pte Plasterer age 18 Nth Sydney NSW Enl 14-4-17 Emb 11R/ICC. Dtls camp 20-6-17 to CTU 16-7-17 to 1Bn 1Co 6-9-17 to 3Bn 11Co 23-11-17 batman to Lt White to 15 LHR 1-7-18 RTA 30-7-18 "Wiltshire" underage born 14-1-1901 disch 17-10-18 Later WWII (NX7432) Sig 6 Div Sig Co Enl 7-11-39 disch 27-1-40 relist (N71648) Sgt LofC HQ Kit store Enl 14-2-40 disch 23-3-43
 

 

Hope that helps

 

Cheers

 

S.B

Edited by stevebecker

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wazza129

Well done Steve - thanks very much - I'll check Davies and other's service records.

 

Btw I was recently reading a biog of the war poet Wilfred Owen who advised that the main selection requirement for selecting a batman (or servant as the English officers called them) was their skill with a bayonet (above everything else) as the batman was always at the officers side.... 

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stevebecker

Mate,

 

Try reading Reed's book on the ICC.

 

He mentions that many batman didn't follow there officers into battle, but stayed with the gear.

 

I don't know the requirement for batman following the officer into battle, but the ones I do know about the reason for being had little to do with bayonet fighting and more to do with cooking and getting things for there officer. (the men operated (cooked and such) in four men sections, while the officer was not amoung these, so his batman did the cooking and cleaning his food and kit).

 

At 2nd Gaza the batman are recorded as going with the Camel holders behind the front, as the batman was also the camel holder for the officer where there was not a groom.

 

Most if not all officers had a batman, but also a groom in the mounted units.

 

While grooms in the Camel Corps are hard to find, there are many I record in the Light Horse units.

 

Cheers

 

S.B

Edited by stevebecker

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wazza129

Cheers mate - noted!

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David Miller

Hi , I have seen a picture of the Headquarters Staff, Imperial Camel Corps 1916-1918 at Cairo showing RQMS Herring, Sgt Rogers, Sgt Little, Sgt Hood, Sgt Chalmers (my grandfather James Barclay Chalmers No 51137 when in Camel Corps), Sgt Last, Sgt Bishop, Sgt Francis, Sgt Cutts, Sgt Bettersworth, Sgt Bannister, RSM Warren, Lt Quecer, Major Buxton (second in command), Col Smith VC (Commanding Officer), Capt Barber (adjutant), Cat De Boer (Medical Officer), Capt Ivenden (Veterinary Officer).

 

Does anyone have any pictures of the Abbassia camel training facility?

 

Also my grandfather,  was transferred into the ICC on 20 May 1916 but was already serving in a British  Camel Training School from 20 Feb 1914 and I am still searching for info on what he would have been doing there. Prior to joining Camel Corps he was 2nd Battalion Gordon Highlanders Reg No. 2865120.

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stevebecker

Mate,

 

It would be good to get an out line of your GF service

 

But I show he was on Q staff at the CTU deport at Abbassia in Jan 1916 when the unit was formed some time after that date he shows up in the 8th Company as a Sig (possibly the May 1916 date ( when the 8th Co was formed.) He later shows up as A/Sig/Sgt with 2Bn HQ the last for him was a Sgt in the 5th Company when it returned to Abbassia to disband.

 

As to the men you mention I record these details

 

Herring    William Harold    7445    RQMS    possibly QM 2Bn HQ 12-16 to A/QM 2Bn HQ ICC prom 2/Lt QM 2Bn HQ to 3 weeks leave 8-18 rtn QM 2Bn HQ 12-18 Ex Col/Sgt Devon Regt transfered 24-8-17 (sorry limited details on him) 
 

Sorry I could not confirm Sgt Rogers I only one I have is;

Rogers    Benjamin J.    51135    Pte    5Co ICC shown 5Co to ICC depot 10-18 Ex 1/5 Welsh Regt (6723) and Hussars to Welsh Regt (74696)

 

Little    Archibald    A/1646    Sgt    tos Arm S/Sgt 3Bn HQ 12-16 to 1Bn HQ to 3Bn HQ 1-17 Ex Royal Army Ordnance Corps
 

Sgt Hood the only man I fould was;

Hood    John    51134    Sgt    7Co? ICC Ex 1/5 Suffolk Regt (7818) later RASC (T/41869)

 

Chalmers    James    51137    Pte    Q store 1-16 to Sig 8Co and T/Sig/Sgt 2Bn HQ shown Sgt 5Co to ICC depot 2-19 Ex Gordon Highlanders (81) and Hussars

 

Sgt Last the only man I have is;

Last    Richard C.    51138    Cpl    ICC Ex Royal Garrison Artillery (25734) and Hussars
 

Sgt Bishop I have no man by that name found so far (do you have any details?)

 

Sgt Francis no Sgt found only these men;

Francis    Harold    50724    Pte    Tos 10Co 5-16 Ex 1/1 Lincoln Yeo (2383) and Hussars
Francis    William G.    50470    Pte    Tos 6Co? 5-16 ICC? Ex 1/1 Pembroke Yeo (4539) and Hussars
 

Sgt Cutts I have no man by that name found so far (do you have any details?)

 

Bettesworth    Alfred E.    51133    Sgt    tos A/RQMS 3Bn HQ 12-16 to 2Bn HQ 3-17 MID - reason not stated possibly 2nd Gaza Ex Suffork Regt (7887) to KRRC (5465)

 

Bannister    N/R    N/R    Sgt    orderly room Sgt at Abbassia deport (soory not much)

 

Warren    Henry H    51132    RSM    RSM 2Bn HQ ICC Ex Devon Regt (7972) to Hussars 
 

Lt Quecer  I have no man by that name found so far (do you have any details?)

 

Buxton    Robin V.        Maj    Tos 2ic CTU Abbassia 4-16 to UK leave 9-17 rtn 1-18 to possibly 2ic 2Bn to T/CO 2Bn HQ (Gardner on leave) 1-18 rtn 2ic 2Bn HQ 5-18 to OC ICC depot Abbassia 5-18 to A/LtCol CO 2Bn HQ with Buxton's Force to TEL 7-18 DSO & Order of the Crown of Italy Ex Capt West Kent Yeo 
 

Smith    Clarence Leslie        Col    to CO CTU depot Abbassia (replaced Capt Brading) 1-16 to GOC HQ/ICC Bde 12-16 to 6-18 Ex Maj Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry VC - pre war Somaliland award MC - reason not stated 

 

Barber    James    263    2/Lt    Adjt CTU Abbassia 1-16 to Capt CTU & Camel Depot at Khanka Egyptian Frontiers Administration Ex Wo1 1 Gar Bn Royal Warwick Regt (2876) att Instructor Camel School Egyptian CC Abbassia 4-10 prom 2/Lt Adjt 3-15 
 

De Boer    Henry Speildewindle     Dr    Capt    ICC tos RMO 1Bn HQ 12-16 MC & MID - reason not stated to ACFA 7-18 Ex Royal Army Medical Corps att 1Bn Royal Dublin Fusiliers (G)
 

Capt Ivenden I have no man by that name found so far (do you have any details?)

 

Sorry I don't have photos but a check of the AWM webb site should find a large number of photos on the Camel Corps in which some of the men at Abbassia are shown.

 

Can you post a copy of that photo so I can see the date it was taken?

 

Cheers

 

S.B

Edited by stevebecker

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David Miller

Thanks Steve, a brief outline of Grandfathers service is as follows taking info from his Gordon Highlanders Service record plus the one from the Camel Corps School.

  • Dec 1912 left India for Cairo with 2nd Battalion Gordon Highlanders (was Private)
  • 20 Feb 1914 Posted to P.S.(?) Camel Corps School
  • 26 Jan 1916 Promoted to Corporal
  • 13 May 2016 Appointed unpaid L/Sergeant in I.C.C. Perm Staff
  • 30 Jan 1916 Appointed Acting Sergeant with pay
  • 21 Sept 1918 Promoted Sergeant 3 May 1919
  • 3 May 1919 Transferred to No 8 Coy from I.C.C. Base
  • 28 June 1919 Transferred to HQ I.C.C
  • 1 July 1919 Posted to Camel School from HQ I.C.C.
  • 30 Aug 1919 Detached for duty with Signal Company Line of Communication Sinai
  • 27 Sept 1919 Returned to Camel Corps School from Signal Company
  • 22 July 1920 Transferred back to Gordon Highlanders in Glasgow
  • However he was, according to his marriage certificate, still in Abbassia, Cairo on 29 Sept 1920 when he married my grandmother. Still trying to figure out what she was doing there at that time although imagine she was probably a Nanny or "nurse".

The photo down below if from the Imperial War Museum Item Q108534 and is part of the Lt Col Robert Vere Buxton Collection. Unfortunately I have no further information on the others in the group although it is quite possible that the others, like my grandfather, may have received some quick promotions including as "acting" positions.

 

Regards,

Imperial Camel Corps 1916-1918.jpg

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David Miller

Hi,

 

meant to include this at the same time but couldn't find it at the time.

 

This is the photo sent by the Gordon Highlanders Museum but they have been unable to tell me its origin or any other details.

 

They did say that it was probably 1913 but definitely not later than 1914. They added that those in the front row are Gordon Highlanders complete with their bonnets. In theory my grandfather could be in that front row but cannot get sufficient clarity in the photo to identify anyone.

 

Regards,

 

5af14c5659555_Cairo.TheCamelSchool.jpg.df06189c79e9496f7a22e0f18c6d42ff.jpgWhat they

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stevebecker

Mate,

 

Thank you nice photos.

 

Yes the Gordons, looks like a Garrison unit in Egypt pre war (did they tell you what Bn was there?)

 

I have  numbers of the 1 Gar Bn Royal Warwick Regt during the war, so to send troops from a Garrison Bn seams the thing to do?

 

Possibly to escape Garrison work to some thing interesting.

 

As to the two officers both show only Gordons later Capts 

 

I show these men from the Gordons

 

Blair - Cunynghame    RO        Lt    to ICC depot 1913 Ex Gordon Highlanders RTU date unknown to Capt 2Bn
Chalmers    James    51137    Pte    Q store CTU Abbassia 1-16 to Sig 8Co 5-16 and T/Sig/Sgt 2Bn HQ shown Sgt 5Co to ICC depot 2-19 Ex Gordon Highlanders (81) and Hussars
Chisholm    Kenneth        Capt    ICC Ex CQMS 1Bn Gordon Highlanders (S/16003) and 2/Lt 5Bn Gloucester Regt to Indian Army shown Kew records
Davidson    EH        Lt    Adjt Egyptian CC depot Abbassia 1914-15 RTU to France 1915 replaced by Brownlow Ex 2Bn Gordons
Sworder    Frederick Robert Fairman        Lt    to ICC depot 1913 Ex Gordon Highlanders RTU date unknown to Capt

 

Cheers


S.B

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David Miller

Hi Steve,

My Grandfather was in the 2nd Battalion Gordon Highlanders that had left Cawnpore, India in December 1912 and sailed to Cairo to form part of the Garrison force so it seems likely it is they in the photo.

 

According to the Gordon Highlanders Museum, each of the Garrison Battalions was required to second a platoon to the Camel Corps. It is alleged that it was voluntary so it appears my Grandfather volunteered in 1914 and then stayed 8 years with the Camel Corps through its different forms and guises. Reviewing his service record again it seems he was called a Sergeant Instructor during this time and it says he was a good drill instructor and had also acquired very good typing and administration skills. Possibly this is why in 1926 -1930 he was transferred to 14th Battalion The London Regiment (London Scottish) as Sergeant Instructor to complete his 22 years of service.

 

Cheers

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roselyn2

One of my groups to the Glamorgan Yeomanry to 1382 Pte T. Rees Glam Yeo. Territorial Force War Medal and B.W.M. And Victory. Also No.50499 Imperial Camel Corps Of Hussars.    Lyn

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stevebecker

Lyn,

 

Yes mate I show Tom as

 

Rees    Thomas    50499    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC Ex Glamorgan Yeo (1382) and Hussars
 

I also have to other blokes by that name but different TA Regt possibly brothers?

 

Rees    David John    230243    Pte    possibly Tos 6Co 5-16 killed by bomb reported bombed in air attack near El Kutshan buried Gaza War Cemetery Egypt Ex 1/1 Pembroke Yeo (4307) & 24Bn Welsh Regt (230243) 231 Bde 74 Div    KIA 21-4-17

 

Rees    Richard    50454    Sgt    Tos 6Co? 5-16  ICC Ex 1/1 Pembroke Yeo (2232) and Hussars shown Kew records    

 

I am sorry there not much on Tom's service other then he served with the 6th Company

 

Here are some of its story in the ICC

 

25-5-16  6Co under Maj Knoop (4th (South Wales  & Welsh Border Yeomanry) Mtd Bde - 1/1 Cheshire, 1/1 Shropshire, 1/1 Montgomery, 1/1 Glemorgan, 1/1 Pembroke & 1/1 Denbigh Yeo) arrived ICC depot

23-7-16   6Co under Maj de Knoop (5 officers 119 men 146 camels) moved to Ismailia (Lt's De Rutzen (2ic) -Tredinnick -Houghton -Pettit)

4-8-16   Camel Bn under Maj de Knoop formed (4Co 6Co 9Co & 10Co) with 4Co (4 officers 108 men 144 camels) & 10Co (4 officers 107 men 136 camels) moved to Bir el Mahadat for Romani operations

5-8-16   Camel Bn moved from Mahadat via Bada to Hill 385 with 6Co engagement at Hamisah

6-8-16   Camel Bn arrived Mageibra and moved to Bir el Aweidiya and engaged the Turks (4Co 6Co 9Co 10Co)

7-8-16   Camel Bn moved from Aweidiya to Bir el Bayud 11LHR captured prisoners, moved to Hod el Muhammam where Camel Bn with 4Co & 6Co attacked and Maj de Knoop & Lt the Barron De Rutzen OC 6Co were killed & Maj Bardwell 10Co took command and withdrawal to Mageibra (reported total columns (LH & Yeomanry and ICC) casualties 2 officers 12 men killed and 1 officer and 37 men wounded)

8-8-16   Camel Bn arrived Mageibra around 0200 bombed by plane & Lt Ashlin replaced Maj Bardwell 10Co & Lt Pettit replaced Lt the Barron De Rutzen 6Co killed at Hod el Muhammam

10-9-16   reported 1st Camel Bn formed from Camel Bn under Maj Langley CO & Adjt Lt Goldenstedt T/QM Lt Matthews (4Co 5Co 6Co 7Co) at Hod el Willegha (war diary 5Co shows 1st Camel Bn (5Co 6Co 7Co 9Co?)

14-9-16  1st Camel Bn 4Co & 7Co with 5Co & 6Co to rest at Mageibra

17-9-16 1st Camel Bn at Battle of Mazar

1st Camel Bn (4Co 5Co 6Co 7Co) & HK&SMB

12-10-16   mixed force mustered at Bayud for Moghara operation 1st Camel Bn under Maj Langley (4Co 5Co 6Co 12Co) + RE Sect + sect HK&SMB + Sig Sect & RFC report centre + Wireless Sig sect + Medical Sect + SAA Column & Camel transport (CTC) with Comp LH Bde (11 LHR 12 LHR 1/1 City of London Yeo + MG sect 160 Bde)

14-10-16  action at Moghara

1st Camel Bn (4Co 5Co 6Co 12Co) & sect HK&SMB

19-10-16  1st Camel Bn (shown 4Co 6Co 12Co in 11 LHR war diary) with 11 LHR at Mageibra patrols to Abu Fileifil and El Bittia rtn 19-10-16

20-10-16   1st Camel Bn moved to El Galss and 4 Sect 8Co to Shusha (Samalut) (1 officer 40 men 70 camels)  and to Baharia

4-11-16  newly raised 4th Sections for companies sent to units with 4th Sect 5Co (1 officer 40 men) 4th Sect 6Co (2 officers 39 men) 4th Sect 7Co (2 officers 45 men)

5-11-16   12Co replaced 7Co at Bayud  with 1st Camel Bn (4Co 6Co 7Co 12Co)

16-12-16   6Co under Capt Pettit with 1/2 Co at El Galss return to remainder of Co with HQ 1Bn ICC at Bir el Abd

 

28-12-16  Battle at Magdhaba

 

Camel Bde HQ

BrigGen Smith VC

 

Bde/Maj Stocker

1st Battalion

LtCol Langley

4th Co 

Capt Denson

 

2ic Capt Mills

6th British Co

Capt Pettit

 

Adjt Capt Goldenstedt

7th British Co

Capt Gregory

 

 

12th Co

Capt Smith

2nd British Battalion

Maj Bassett

3rd Co  

Capt Naylor

 

2ic unknown

5th British Co

Capt Wilson

 

Adjt Lt Pape

14th Co

Capt Tolmer

 

 

 

 

3rd Anzac Battalion

Maj Huddlestone

1st Co

Lt Cashman

 

2ic unknown

11th Co

Capt Creswell

 

Adjt Capt Tod

15th NZ Co

Capt McCallum

 

 

 

 

HK&S Batty

Maj Moore

 

 

2/1 Cheshire Field Troop RE

Lt Drake RE

 

 

1/1st Welsh FAmb

unknown

 

 

4Co (-) under Capt Denson at Bir el Abd during Dec 1916 less one sect under Lt Williams to 1Co

3Co under Capt Naylor & 7Co under Capt Gregory remain at El Arish  Total Casualties 2 killed with 1 officer and 26 men wounded

 

9-1-17  Battle at Rafa

 

Camel Bde HQ

BrigGen Smith VC

 

Bde/Maj Stocker

1st Anzac Battalion

LtCol Langley

1st Co

Capt Wright

 

 

3rd Co

Lt Norris

 

 

4th Co

Capt Denson

 

 

15th NZ Co

Capt McCallum KIA

2nd British Battalion

Maj Bassett

5th Co

Capt Wilson

 

2ic unknown

6th Co

Capt Pettit

 

Adjt Lt Pape

7th Co

Capt Deas

 

 

 

 

3rd Battalion

Maj Huddlestone

11th Co

Capt Creswell

 

Adjt Capt Hemphill

12th Co

Capt Smith KIA

 

 

14th Co (det)

Capt Tolmer

 

 

 

 

HK&S Batty

Maj Moore

 

 

2/1 Cheshire Field Troop RE

Lt Drake RE

 

 

1/1st Welsh FAmb

 

 

 

 

16-2-17  Hassana operation by Maj Bassett's 2Bn ICC (5Co 6Co 7Co) + sect 14Co + sect HK&SMB + Scottish FAmb & 2/1 Field Troop RE att Maj Greenwood & Lt Herbert (DMC Intell) to Hassana *captured 3 officers & 20 men rtn  21-2-17

26/27-3-17  Battle at 1st Gaza

Camel Bde HQ 1Bn ICC (1Co 3Co 4Co 15Co) 2Bn ICC (5Co 6Co 7Co 9Co) 3Bn ICC (11Co 12Co 14Co) HKSMB 26 MG Sqn (265 MG Co) 1/1 Scottish Horse FAmb

 

19-4-17 Battle at 2nd Gaza

 

Camel Bde HQ

BrigGen Smith VC

 

Bde/Maj Stocker

1st Battalion

LtCol Langley

1st Co

Capt Cashman

 

Maj Mills (2ic)

2nd Co

Capt Campbell

 

 

3rd Co

Capt Naylor KIA

 

 

4th Co

Capt Denson

2nd British Battalion

LtCol Gardner

5th Co

Capt Wilson

 

Maj Winterton (2ic)

6th Co

Capt Houghton

 

Adjt Capt Tod

7th Co

Capt Gregory

 

 

9th Co

Capt Orchardson KIA

3rd Anzac Battalion

LtCol De Lancey-Forth

11th Co

Capt Creswell

 

Maj Donovan (2ic)

12th Co

Capt Norris

 

Adjt Capt Hemphill

14th Co

Capt Tolmer

 

 

15th NZ Co

Capt Priest KIA

HK&S Batty

Maj Moore

 

 

26th MG Sqn

Maj Millar

 

 

1/1st Scottish Horse FAmb

Maj Mason

 

 

 

Total casualties 4 officers and 41 men killed with 19 officers and 271 men wounded (killed Capt Naylor Capt Orchardson Capt Priest with Lt Chapman HK&SMB) with Lt's Fender and Hill died of wounds

19-5-17   ICC Bde escorted by Imperial MD moved to Rafa for the Auja Raid along with Asluj Raid by Anzac MD arrived 21-5-17

21-9-17   6Co left Kantara to relieve 10Co at Sollum (4 officers 165 men)

9-18   6Co Pte Hughes & Gross WIA 9-18 reported wounded by arabs/senussi at Bir Jip near Solum

10-18    6Co sent 60 men to capture Sidi Achmed Chief of the Senussi

1-11-18  shown 2Bn ICC 5Co & 8Co at Tul Keram 6Co at Sollum 7Co at Port Said & Ferry Post

6-1-19   6Co disbanded to 5Co

 

Cheers

 

S.B
 

 

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