Crashed aircraft; can we identify it?

[high wood]

Unfortunately the serial number is not complete but it may be C204. Can we identify the aircraft and any further details about the circumstances in which it crashed?

[centurion]

Airco Dh 6 trainer

[centurion]

Very probably - some were used for non training work mainly anti submarine patrols but the overwhelming majority were basic trainers.

[topgun1918]

C204 was a Pup, so the serial number must lie in the range C2040 - C2049, all of which were DH6s.

Graeme

[mickdavis]

Are you sure that the third digit is a 4. The background looks very British. I don't have any information on C2041 and C2043 but it would seem possible that they too were shipped to Egypt.

C2040 To Middle East. 5 FS and wrecked 5.11.18 (Capt CL Baldwin KIFA/Flt Cdt WG Kennedey fatally IIFA – machine deleted on unit 22.2.19.

C2041

C2042 To Middle East. 18 TDS and deleted on unit 13.2.19.

C2043

C2044 To Middle East. 18 TDS. X AD (AW&SP) ex 18 TDS 3.3.19 and deleted 21.5.19.

C2045 To Middle East. 18 TDS and deleted on unit 10.11.18.

C2046 To Middle East. 21 TS and wrecked 5.6.18 (Sgt HW Hunt KIFA – machine deleted on unit).

C2048 To Middle East. 18 TDS. X AD ex 18 TDS 27.2.19.

C2047 To Middle East. 5FS.

C2048 To Middle East. X AD and deleted 21.5.19.

C2049 To Middle East. 18 TDS. X AD ex 18 TDS 7.3.19 and deleted 21.5.19.

[centurion]

Actually the background could be anywhere including parts of Egypt but the men do not seem to be dressed for the Middle East (unless it's mid winter in Egypt when it can be cool -ish) especially before the micro climate changes that the Aswan high dam brought about.

[centurion]

All the C20-- Dh6s appear to have been built by Graham White if that's of any help

[centurion]

The only part of the serial number that I am sure about is the C20. I had thought that the 4 on the fuselage might form part of the serial number.

Probably just a simple individual aircraft ID

"I say who's flying no 6 today? It's just pranged coming in, undercarts gone west.

"That'll be Fred Prune he's taking Smithers on cross country to day - he all right?"

"Looked OK both of them but the bus's a write off"

"Ah well you'll just have to use number 8 this morning - it's just back from the 'shops - try not to break it"

[mickdavis]

The thin white band on the rear fuselage was probably a unit marking and, if it was, certain home based Training Squadrons/TDS can be eliminated - 7 TS (swastika), 20TS (diamond), 35 TS (red/white checkerboard on nose), 52 TS (white vertical cross), 190 NTS (3 broader white vertical bands), 191 NTS (horizontal white arrowhead) and 49 TDS (white flight group numbers on the nose) spring to mind. Something to check.

[centurion]

Unfortunately as over 50 training establishments of different types operated the Dh6 and AFAIK no one has catalogued all the markings used this may be difficult to check. Night training squadrons would seem to have adopted the blue and red (no white) fuselage roundel so you can probably eliminate 190, 191,193,194 and 200 all of which used the Dh 6

[mickdavis]

Night Training Squadrons were divided into elementary and higher. The DH6 was operated by elementary ones as an initial trainer, day only, and photos show that they did not carry toned down blue/red only markings (nor did most FE2bs used by the higher NTS, as it happens - the CCI FE monograph has numerous pics to show this). The DH6 NTS were 186, 187, 190 and 191, with 191 becoming a higher NTS with FE2bs by the time it moved to Upwood. 193 & 194 TS were run-of-the-mill elementary Training Squadrons based in Egypt, not NTS.

It's true that there is no surviving official record of training unit markings, more's the pity. I haven't had time to check properly but another few unit markings were 1 TDS (white zig-zag), 13 TS (white triangle, apex up) and 66 TS (white triangle, apex down).

[centurion]

Night Training Squadrons were divided into elementary and higher. The DH6 was operated by elementary ones as an initial trainer, day only, and photos show that they did not carry toned down blue/red only markings (nor did most FE2bs used by the higher NTS, as it happens - the CCI FE monograph has numerous pics to show this). The DH6 NTS were 186, 187, 190 and 191, with 191 becoming a higher NTS with FE2bs by the time it moved to Upwood. 193 & 194 TS were run-of-the-mill elementary Training Squadrons based in Egypt, not NTS.

It's true that there is no surviving official record of training unit markings, more's the pity. I haven't had time to check properly but another few unit markings were 1 TDS (white zig-zag), 13 TS (white triangle, apex up) and 66 TS (white triangle, apex down).

Take a look at page 69 in The Aeroplanes of the Royal Flying Corps - there's a nice photo of Dh6 B3010 in night markings with blue and red only roundel

[mickdavis]

Take a look at page 69 in The Aeroplanes of the Royal Flying Corps - there's a nice photo of Dh6 B3010 in night markings with blue and red only roundel

Agreed - that was a machine of 2 WS at Penshurst, which also had B3004, B3005, B3006, B3008 and B3011 - AMC tended to deliver machines in discrete batches to training units. Have you noticed that there's no sign of wingtip navigation lights or brackets for Holt's flares - purely cosmetic markings and possibly a unit whim. Photos of DH6s with other NTS show standard day markings, the attached example is B2879 of 186 NTS at East Retford, being dismantled after a forced landing. Capt MH Coote, 37 HDS, flew B3010 twice while undergoing the Penshurst WT course, both on the morning of 8 June 1918 - his logbook flight time used the 24hr clock. None of his other flights were later than 17.50 (40mins). I'd have thought that, if the machines were used at night, he would have been given the experience. Do you have evidence to the contrary?