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Remembered Today:

1888 Lee Metford Bayonet & Scabbard


RobL

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Very happy with this 1892 manufactured 1888 pattern Lee Metford bayonet and scabbard which appear to be matching - there is a date of 1916 stamped on both the bayonet and scabbard, which I presume is a re-issue date? Also what I presume is a regimental number of 631 on the top of the bayonet scabbard and faintly on the handle. If anyone can help with the markings i'd be very interested. Also, just to confirm, is this the right pattern of bayonet for a Long Lee Enfield/Charger Loading Lee Enfield/Lee Metford?

Thanks!

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I think your 'date', a crowned 16 over E is actually an Enfield viewer's mark and would have been done in 1892. The 16 on the scabbard leather is a '91 read upside down. The 631 is most likely a rack number or part of the parent rifle's serial number to ensure they stayed together. In 1892 this would have been a Lee- Metford rifle, but all this series of bayonets were interchangeable. Nice bayonet. - SW

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  • 3 years later...

Have been reading about Lee-Metford bayonets and found one amongst my father's collection of trains!  By the rivets this is a mark 1 type 1 in its original scabbard - but this was probanly also used in WWII in the later addition of 20170801_123127.jpg.63b7e7bf4f0d176209fc0add2784bdfb.jpgwebbing (shown in last photo) .  Can anyone tell me more from the photos? Apologies photos are not great.

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Blade is 12" long 

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1 hour ago, Lmx said:

Have been reading about Lee-Metford bayonets and found one amongst my father's collection of trains!  By the rivets this is a mark 1 type 1 in its original scabbard - but this was probanly also used in WWII in the later addition of

 

20170801_123127.jpg.63b7e7bf4f0d176209fc0add2784bdfb.jpgwebbing (shown in last photo) .  Can anyone tell me more from the photos? Apologies photos are not great.

20170801_123108.jpg

20170801_123058.jpg

20170801_123046.jpg

20170801_123210.jpg

20170801_123146.jpg

Blade is 12" long 

 

Welcome to GWF!

 

And what an entrance you have made... Many a person here on GWF would be more than happy to find one of these - the first version of the P.1888 bayonet! Superb find!

 

Made in 02/90, so one of the last of its type, and 're-issued' twice in 1898. It has a sold out of service mark and the back-to-back RR indicates it was 'reduced in status', so - if I recall correctly - probably used for training before being sold out of service.

 

Frogs and bayonets are easily 'married', and so the WW2frog does not mean it was used then - but I would not be surprised at such a bayonet being paired with such a frog in the early days of the Home Guard!

 

Trajan

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On 9/30/2013 at 22:16, RobL said:

Very happy with this 1892 manufactured 1888 pattern Lee Metford bayonet and scabbard which appear to be matching -

 

A good solid example of one of my favourite bayonets! I'd be happy with it also!

 

Trajan

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Thank you for the information.  I have no idea how my dad came in to possession of this - he collected cameras and model trains.  Is it possible to identify who the bayonet was issued to? I will check with Dad to see if it has sentimental value to him. My grandfather was in RN so assuming it is unlikely to be a family member's bayonet. 

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2 hours ago, Lmx said:

... My grandfather was in RN so assuming it is unlikely to be a family member's bayonet. ...

 

Well, others on GWF will know better than I, but there is a belief with some supporting evidence that these bayonets were re-issued for the RN on home base duties in WW2 - so, was your granddad serving then?

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1 hour ago, trajan said:

 

Well, others on GWF will know better than I, but there is a belief with some supporting evidence that these bayonets were re-issued for the RN on home base duties in WW2 - so, was your granddad serving then?

Thank you for the information.  I have no idea how my dad came in to possession of this - he collected cameras and model trains.  Is it possible to identify who the bayonet was issued to? I will check with Dad to see if it has sentimental value to him. My grandfather was in RN so assuming it is unlikely to be a family member's bayonet. 

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My grandfather did serve in WWII but my Dad seems to think he picked it up at a boat jumble (he was a keen sailor as well as collecting trains and cameras) so perhaps this was just a very lucky purchase.  If he purchased this at a boat jumble I am certain he would not have known it was a rare find - serendipitous I feel. 

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Whatever its history, rest assured - and tell your dad! - that this is a rarity! Not possible to identify who it belonged to, as it lacks a regimental identifier, and even if we had that then we can't go any further as those lists no longer exist!  

 

PS: I collect many things that come my way simply out of interest in their history or oddness - so this is an nice interesting piece to have!

Edited by trajan
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Nice to see one that's actually been used, looking at the re-issue stamps a fair period of service.

The one I have hasn't seen any service whatsoever by the look of it, bit of a shame in a way.

These too are my favourite bayonet, can't seem to resist them.

 

Dave.

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16 hours ago, Dave66 said:

... The one I have hasn't seen any service whatsoever by the look of it, bit of a shame in a way. ... These too are my favourite bayonet, can't seem to resist them.

 

Welcome to GWF!

 

As for 're-issue' marks, well, it could be that they are 'inspection' marks of bayonets sitting in the stores!  

 

I certainly can't resist them either - they are reasonably common over here, and in fact more common than WW period P.1907's... Looking forward to seeing what you have!

 

Trajan

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Many thanks Trajan,

 

they used to to be quite common locally here in rural England, but over the past few years they are getting harder to find in what I'd call "fair condition" for a reasonable priced piece, let alone interesting unit markings where I can place them at a specific period and place in the British army's history.

if I'm really lucky the bayonet can be placed in the boer war and the Great War...that's the magic of the P1888...the history.

 

One day I may start posting a few picks to share with everybody, if I can get over the "iPad out of the window syndrome" due to very poor broadband speeds!!!

 

Dave.

 

 

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  • 1 year later...

Just to show I am not entirely enamoured of the German stuff...

 

This one came my way a week ago - I have a well-known weakness for P.1888's when they appear in Turkey. It is an 11/92, so fit in with the original post, an 08/92. No markings other than a '12' on the pommel. An odd (to me) ricasso inspector mark, a 40/W - I don't recall a 'W' mark before - not that I am a srious student of these ones! A 'Z'on the upper tang, but no blade spine marks - rather odd? The locket is 39/E. the chape looks to be a crowned 'B' or a 3/B. All that can be seen on the scabbard leather is (LHS) an 'E'.

 

Enjoy!

 

PS: I think I have a unit-marked 1907 HQ somewhere I haven't posted yet... Plus a couple more Imperial Germans... Stand-by!

 

 

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Edited by trajan
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50 minutes ago, trajan said:

Just to show I am not entirely enamoured of the German stuff...

 

This one came my way a week ago - I have a well-known weakness for P.1888's when they appear in Turkey. It is an 11/92, so fit in with the original post, an 08/92. No markings other than a '12' on the pommel. An odd (to me) ricasso inspector mark, a 40/W - I don't recall a 'W' mark before - not that I am a srious student of these ones! A 'Z'on the upper tang, but no blade spine marks - rather odd? The locket is 39/E. the chape looks to be a crowned 'B' or a 3/B. All that can be seen on the scabbard leather is (LHS) an 'E'.

 

Enjoy!

 

PS: I think I have a unit-marked 1907 HQ somewhere I haven't posted yet... Plus a couple more Imperial Germans... Stand-by!

 

 

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Very nice sir, excellent condition given its age. Presuming the W would indicate Wilkinson London production, I’ve got a couple...49/W and 35/W.

looking forward to seeing the other😀.

 

Dave.

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4 minutes ago, Dave66 said:

...Presuming the W would indicate Wilkinson London production, I’ve got a couple...49/W and 35/W. ...

 

Thanks Dave, 

 

I did wonder about the 'W' and 'Wilkinson' jumped up. I think JMB might have a record of these inspector marks (although he is P.1907 man!:thumbsup:). It is a WD-marked blade though...

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6 minutes ago, trajan said:

 

Thanks Dave, 

 

I did wonder about the 'W' and 'Wilkinson' jumped up. I think JMB might have a record of these inspector marks (although he is P.1907 man!:thumbsup:)

I’m sure he will be along soon, odd that there are no spine marks though.

Thanks for sharing, good to see a new 1888 once in a while.

 

Dave.

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2 hours ago, trajan said:

 

Thanks Dave, 

 

I did wonder about the 'W' and 'Wilkinson' jumped up. I think JMB might have a record of these inspector marks (although he is P.1907 man!:thumbsup:). It is a WD-marked blade though...

 

Several very nice pieces here.

I wonder what makes the P.'88 bayonet so attractive....is it the near symmetry and the 12 inches of imperial cold steel?  That blade-length seems to be just right for the width.

Well, if I am a 1907 man, I was certainly an 1888 boy.

My P.'88 database shows that the "W" is only associated with those made by WILKINSON, either crown/35/W or crown/49/W.

However, Wilkinson is not only associated with the "W"; crown/58/E and crown/66/E also appear on (generally) later dated pieces.

I only have 9 examples of the Wilkinson-made, so should probably get back into accruing more data from all the makers.

 

Regards,

JMB

 

 

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6 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

 

Several very nice pieces here.

I wonder what makes the P.'88 bayonet so attractive....is it the near symmetry and the 12 inches of imperial cold steel?  That blade-length seems to be just right for the width.

Well, if I am a 1907 man, I was certainly an 1888 boy.

My P.'88 database shows that the "W" is only associated with those made by WILKINSON, either crown/35/W or crown/49/W.

However, Wilkinson is not only associated with the "W"; crown/58/E and crown/66/E also appear on (generally) later dated pieces.

I only have 9 examples of the Wilkinson-made, so should probably get back into accruing more data from all the makers.

 

Regards,

JMB

 

 

 

As I have said before, and I repeat again, JMB - a scholar after my own heart!

 

Yes, the P.1888's are lovely to look at - fit in with those German 71/84's and Swedish M.1896 as simply so beautifuly crafted and, well, a joy to loo at despite their ultimte function and purpose.

 

Julian

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Whilst I appreciate the 1907, the 1888 to me will always be my favourite for numerous reasons...note to self, need to collect more😀.

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22 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

 

Several very nice pieces here.

I wonder what makes the P.'88 bayonet so attractive....is it the near symmetry and the 12 inches of imperial cold steel?  That blade-length seems to be just right for the width.

Well, if I am a 1907 man, I was certainly an 1888 boy.

My P.'88 database shows that the "W" is only associated with those made by WILKINSON, either crown/35/W or crown/49/W.

However, Wilkinson is not only associated with the "W"; crown/58/E and crown/66/E also appear on (generally) later dated pieces.

I only have 9 examples of the Wilkinson-made, so should probably get back into accruing more data from all the makers.

 

Regards,

JMB

 

 

 

So, what do you reckon? Wilkinson made blade supplied to RSAF?

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5 minutes ago, trajan said:

 

So, what do you reckon? Wilkinson made blade supplied to RSAF?

Trajan,

 

Sorry, you have lost me here; no evidence of RAF (what am I thinking) but there possibly is for RSAF, as you suggest.

Would the EFD inspectors not have stamped the spine, or was that done prior to bend test and final acceptance?

Mike Rose’s book may indicate the sequence of markings to be added.

 

Regards,

JMB

P.S. Has he published his P.1907 book yet?

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The last photo in post #1 of this thread shows the markings on the leather of the scabbard.

A very prominent “ND” is present, but has not been identified.

If asked, I would propose Northern District with not a lot of confidence.

Any takers?

 

Regards,

JMB

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14 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

The last photo in post #1 of this thread shows the markings on the leather of the scabbard.

A very prominent “ND” is present, but has not been identified.

If asked, I would propose Northern District with not a lot of confidence.

Any takers?

 

Regards,

JMB

I presume that is the W of the WD, under the /|\...I think. 

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