Need some help with MGC MIC please

[don_estaban]

Hi i am trying to research my Grandfather

I hope i have posted this in the right topic!

this is all the information I have on him, not a lot to go on I know?

I had assumed that he was in the 101st MGC ref the "mgc/101 b37"

but after reading another post on the forum I realise this is not true

so I'm back to square 1, not knowing what unit he was in. so I can further my research

any help would be appreciated

[saw119]

It looks like he was in 1st RIfle brigade and the Machine Gun Corps.

[roughdiamond]

This link tells you how to decipher the MIC http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/research/index.php/find-your-soldier/campaign-medal-records/how-to-interpret-a-campaign-medal-index-card/ this and the info below is from the Long Long Trail. Looks like he was a re-enforcement for the 1st Bn which arrived earlier as suggested by "1/Rif Brig" under the heading "Corps" on the 1914 Medal Card however the "5/" ahead of his service number "5/9844" from the same Medal Card may suggest he came from the 5th Bn (I'm happy to be corrected on this one), the Medal Roll may hold the answer.

1st Battalion
August 1914 : at Colchester. Under command of 11th Brigade in 4th Division.
23 August 1914 : landed at Le Havre.

5th (Reserve) Battalion
August 1914 : at Winchester. A depot/training unit, it moved on mobilisation to Minster (Sheppey) where it remained as part of Thames & Medway Garrison.

Sam

[kenf48]

I'd tend towards the 1st Battalion as indicated by the '1/Rif Brig' on the 1914 Star mic under the heading Corps.

Early recruits to the MGC units formation in October 1915 were often 'brigaded' with their original units which would have put him in the 11th Brigade 40th Division and therefore the 11th MGC Company http://www.1914-1918.net/4div.htm Unfortunately his MGC number suggests he joined the MGC around July/August 1916 when it was far less certain that this pattern of recruitment to the Corps was in place.

I think the 5 prefix may indicate he was a reservist, either Special Reserve or Extra Reserve and was probably allocated the number as Sam suggests when he was on the 5th Bn Reserve strength, recalled to the colours on the outbreak of war and sent to the 1st Bn as a replacement/reinforcement for losses, in all probability after the battle at Le Cateau.

Ken

[spof]

He was definitely in 1RB and as Ken says, the 5 prefix is for Special Reservists. His 1914 Star was despatched by post on 31.5.19 but it looks like he didn't claim his Clasp and Roses

[don_estaban]

Thanks saw119, sam, ken and spof for all your help

Is there any other way to confirm his regt ?

my wife uses Ancestry and she looked into getting his Military Records

but it appears they're not availible ( one of the Burnt one's )

again thanks guys

steve

[saw119]

Have you searched through the Pension records on Ancestry? Since he survived the war there's always a chance that survives. Otherwise the medal rolls at the National Archives at Kew might list his battalion but you need to visit Kew in person to view.

[don_estaban]

Thanks saw119, we checked Pensions on Ancestry but found nothing

and the National Archive will have to wait till I visit the UK

but thanks for your help

steve

[kenf48]

Is there any other way to confirm his regt ?

steve

Post 5 is, I believe, an image of the medal roll for the 1914 Star.

There is no doubt he was in the Special Reserve and went overseas with the 1st Battalion, The Rifle Brigade and. as shown in red ink, he transferred to the MGC.

Unfortunately the Rolls for the MGC do not usually show which Company or Battalion a soldier served in. You may be lucky and find his unit in other documents e.g. the Absent Voters List (that gave my grandfather's RFA Battery and his brother's Battalion) http://1914-1918.net/research/index.php/find-your-soldier/how-the-absent-voters-lists-can-help-your-military-research/ , or even in local newspapers. If the AVL is not listed on the LLT it may be worth contacting the county record office/local library to see if it still exists, of course even if it does this will only tell you his unit when the list was compiled which may or may not be the unit he joined.

His medals will be named to the Rifle Brigade as that is the Regiment he first went overseas with.

Ken

[spof]

Steve

It might be worth editing the title of your post to include MGC in it. This will attract the attention of MGC experts.

To do this, click on Edit then select the Use Full Editor option.

Glen

PS Yes, the image is from the RB 1914 Star roll.

[MBrockway]

I'd still check the MGC BWM/VM medal rolls. You never know!

[roughdiamond]

Steve

Did Elijah Marry or have Kids between 1914 and 1919?

Sam

[don_estaban]

Thanks ken very useful information, I will look into it.

Thanks Glen Done.

Thanks MBrockway Sorry how do I do that.

Thanks Sam Yes my dad was born in 1918

Again thanks ALL for your help

[MBrockway]

Steve

Did Elijah Marry or have Kids between 1914 and 1919?

Sam

Steve - Sam's asking this because sometimes a soldier's battalion as well as regiment is recorded on marriage and birth certificates.

It's worth getting copies of these anyway for your family history

[MBrockway]

Thanks MBrockway Sorry how do I do that [check the MGC BWM/VM medal roll ]

Again thanks ALL for your help

Finding the medal roll reference is explained here:

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/research/index.php/find-your-soldier/campaign-medal-records/how-to-interpret-a-campaign-medal-index-card/

Info on the medal rolls is here:

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/research/index.php/find-your-soldier/campaign-medal-records/

In your chap's case they are ...

1914 Star - M/1, page 29

Britsh War Medal/Victory Medal - MGC/101B37, page 3290

You'll need to master the National Archive's online catalogue (aka "Discovery") to turn the medal roll reference into a National Archive catalogue reference.

That's a dark art :-( ... I'm a highly trained graduate used to driving library catalogues and I find "Discovery" extremely frustrating!

I make it WO 329/1744. See here: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C4436962

Once you have found the TNA Catalogue Ref, you will be able to order a scan of the page, for which you'll have to pay. Before coughing up, you'd be wise to check the reference yourself or wait for another Pal to check I've not made a mistake.

Alternatively, put a request in a separate post in the Document Look-up Request sub-forum here on GWF and some Pal may be able to help you, like Glen (Pal SPOF) has with the 1914 Star Roll above.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Mark

[roughdiamond]

Thanks Sam Yes my dad was born in 1918

As Mark says I asked because his Unit maybe listed on Birth or Marriage Certs, as it was your Dad who was born in 1918, I take it you have access to his Birth Cert? If there are other Births or a Marriage Cert earlier, they may help you track his unit?

Sam

[don_estaban]

Thanks Mark for all your hard work, I'll try in the Document Look-up Request sub-forum first

if I have no luck I'll send off for a copy, after looking at WO 329/1744 on the National Archives

I guess it's important to specify Page 3290 only.

Thanks

steve

[don_estaban]

Thanks Sam, I have my dad's birth certtificate it just say's " sgt machine gun corp (waterman)

I think it's waterman?, what was a waterman.

I also have his marriage certificate ( my grandad) and his listed as " soldier "

again thanks for your help

steve

[MBrockway]

Thanks Mark for all your hard work, I'll try in the Document Look-up Request sub-forum first

if I have no luck I'll send off for a copy, after looking at WO 329/1744 on the National Archives

I guess it's important to specify Page 3290 only.

Thanks

steve

You should wait until another Pal has confirmed I have the correct TNA reference!

[don_estaban]

You should wait until another Pal has confirmed I have the correct TNA reference!

Ok Mark

thanks

steve