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French Soldiers death how to research or trace


wulsten
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Can anyone help me to possibly trace this chap who was a French Soldier of the 92nd Regt, i recently purchased his scroll on a whim, hence would like to at least do his story some justice, any help advice appreciated as i have no clue where to start, Geoff :poppy:

post-9296-0-69719400-1380204782_thumb.jp

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You can search deaths here: Mémoire des Hommes and you can find war diaries here: Journaux des unités (> Présentation then use menus).

There's also this site: GenWeb France - Infanterie by div.

(I'm not sure what your French is like so I don't want to patronise you.)

Edit: Does the document have any other information at all? I'm not finding him (there are quite a few with his name).

Gwyn

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Surname goes in Nom.

Forename(s) go in Prénom.

Press to search: Lancer le recherche.

When the results come up, click on the surname to be taken to the individual's fiche. This pops up. It will generally tell you some basic service & a little biographical information, where he joined up, when he died and how. (May be just "killed by enemy" or "wounds".) Some are a lot more informative than others. You may well have to try all the Garniers in case Eugène is a part of his name which hasn't been recorded. (There's a separate search form for air personnel, but he isn't one.)

I can find two sergents called Eugène Garnier (on page 4 of a simple search) but not 92e Régiment d'Infanterie. It needs someone who understands the army structure specifically during WW1 to say whether either is the right person.

Gwyn

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Sorry I can't help any more. If you found the right fiche, you might just have some information to help in looking through the diary. Good luck! :)

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Hi Geoff,

Pre-war the 92e was garrisoned at Clermont-Ferrand, part of 26e division, 13e corps.

Edited 17.10: On Genweb there is one Eugene Garnier with a link to Clermont Ferrand, without much detail (regiment, grade etc). It could be you man, he died 16/05/1916 but this is nothing more than supposition

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Hi Geoff,

The good news is that regiment's JMO is neatly written (well at least the one for 1916 is !) and details losses by name, certainly of sergeant grade. The bad news is he isn't listed on 16/05/1916 (although he could have course have been wounded earlier, dying from wounds on that date - or that might be a different Eugene Garnier).

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Are you sure that he died? The picture you posted does not look like the normal French Diplome d'Honneur which were black and white.

It may be a diplome that was issued by the regiment as a general souvenir or thanks.

I can't find anyone of the name who died.

By the way, you should include in your search in the French database a tick against "includes" for the first name otherwise you will only get men where the first quoted name on the death certificate is Eugene. Includes gives all the men who had the name Eugene anywhere in their list of names. There are 87 in all and none of them are from the 92nd.

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healdav/Steve, thanks for this information, im just trying to locate things via the links but not having much success, so your input is very much appreciated, i believe this fellow was a casualty during the war, here is another image any info again appreciated, Geoff

post-9296-0-60773900-1380214635_thumb.jp

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I can't find anyone of the name who died.

By the way, you should include in your search in the French database a tick against "includes" for the first name otherwise you will only get men where the first quoted name on the death certificate is Eugene. Includes gives all the men who had the name Eugene anywhere in their list of names. There are 87 in all and none of them are from the 92nd.

Nor can I. I did the 'wild' search too and tried alternatives. I even wondered whether it was WW1 (but I can see Mort pour la Patrie 1914 - 1919 on the scroll). I have seen scrolls like that but I don't know anything about them; for example whether professions or trades awarded them. This scroll has Poincaré's signature under 'Honneur aux morts...'; I don't know whether that conveys any more information.

Is it worth asking the vendor if he or she has any other information about where it came from? Eg whether it was in a collection which included other artefacts with details, or came from a specific area?

Gwyn

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Hi Geoff,

I thought I'd check the JMO for 1916 (May onwards) while the pasta boils !!!! Unfortunately they were taken out of the line in June and re-deployed in a different sector in mid-July (Somme, I think), after that there are no names just numbers killed and wounded.

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This diplome seems to be post-war as the war time ones were signed by Poincaré. This seems to be signed by Duchanef (and Foch). I have never seen a coloured one before.

I am just wondering whether the surname is exactly correct. I have tried Gamier, etc. but no result either.

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Hi Geoff,

A JMO is obviously written up by different people at different stages of the war and the content and neatness varies considerably. An advantage of that of the 92e RI is that it is one of the neatest and informative I've seen (certainly the bits of 1915 and 1916 I've had chance to look at).

Unfortunately it varies from periods where daily casualties are named individually to where just totals are given (and then back again). It lists the number and calibre of incoming rounds in their sector on a daily basis. They were in the Somme for a large part of 1915 too (Beuvraignes).

In short, if you read all the JMOs of the 92e RI covering the war, you might get lucky, you might not ! Look for "pertes" (losses) at the end of the daily entry; interestingly most days show "neant" or "nulles" (none): http://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/jmo/ead.html?id=SHDGR__GR_26_N_II

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I think if Geoff can't read French, he might be a bit daunted! :)

Another option you could try is to post a question on the Pages 14-18 Forum. This is a French forum, but there's a section where you can use English; scroll down to 'Forum Pages d'Histoire: international forum' and click on English. There are quite a few competent English writers who might have some insights.

If you're on Twitter, you could tweet a question and it might be picked up by knowledgeable WW1 historians who choose not to use the GWF, or by French historians.

Gwyn

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Steve/Gwyn, i will have a go at both options if i can, thanks for the help, this is certainly a different avenue of the Great War, Geoff

PS anything else greatly appreciated lol

Geoff :wacko:

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Hi Geoff,

Gwyn's post has reminded me that you're not too confident in French but please don't be put off; the JMO's are a great free resource. You're just looking for "pertes": "tué" is killed and "blessé" is wounded

post-48281-0-84336300-1380285218_thumb.j

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